Episode 12: From Global Asset Manager CEO to Founder Heidi Ridley of RadiantESG on Embracing Innovation | How ESG and Sustainability Are Keys to Growth

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It's not every day that you get to sit down with a true industry visionary who has reshaped the landscape of asset management. But today, we have the pleasure of sitting down with the innovative force behind RadiantESG Global Investors – Heidi Ridley. 

With over 30 years of expertise, Heidi’s captivating story will inspire you and challenge your perception of what's possible in the investment world.

In this episode, Heidi shares: 

●      Her backstory – from immigrating from Iran to co-founding an investment boutique investing in positive change
●      The challenges and triumphs of launching her own firm amidst the tumultuous backdrop of the 2020 pandemic 

●      Why she is a firm believer in embracing innovation, defying an industry that resists change 

●      Why qualitative and quantitative both play a role in investing

●      How ESG and sustainability are the keys to future growth

 Most importantly, you’ll hear about the brave step Heidi took to stop toning herself down to “fit in” in the finance world and how revealing her glorious, outspoken, caring personality allowed her to forge deep relationships and flourish as a team leader. 

Get your headphones on and brace yourself for a conversation that will revolutionize your perception of authentic leadership.

More About Heidi Ridley

Heidi is the Co-Founder, CEO and Chair of the Board of RadiantESG Global Investors, culminating 30 years of leadership in asset management roles that encompass business management, investments, product development, institutional and intermediary business development and marketing. She has extensive experience leading and motivating diverse teams globally. 

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Book: Open: An Autobiography

Song: Legendary by Welshly Arms 

Transcript

Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.

Heidi: [00:00:00] So importantly, you know, I feel like we really wanted to create a firm that lives its beliefs thoroughly. And I know that that will resonate with you because contrary to popular belief, that is not the norm. You know, we wanted to do things the way we think that should be done and to be very forward leaning on ESG and impact, which I know is a political landmine right now, but I don't care cuz I think that there's so much materiality and economic value in these non-financial

Heidi: considerations about a company. These are gonna be the companies that are gonna be on the right side of change. Full stop. And so that's what we wanted to do, was build a better way to assess companies in a world that's gonna be very different than the one we've been living in for the past several decades.

Stacy: Hey, my name is Stacy Havener I'm obsessed with startups, stories, and sales. Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the Toughest Boys Club, wall [00:01:00] Street. I've raised over 8 billion that has led to 30 billion in follow-on assets for investment boutiques, you could say against the odd, yeah, understatement.

Stacy: I share stories of the people behind the portfolios while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes. It's real talk here, money, authenticity, growth, setbacks, sales and marketing are all topics we discuss. Think of this as the capital raising class you wish you had in college mixed with happy hour.

Stacy: Pull up a seat, grab your notebook, and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn. This is the Billion dollar Backstory podcast.

Stacy: This is a story about journeys, the journey of an Iranian family to America, the journey of a self-made entrepreneur, his wife and four daughters in California. The journey of a young woman [00:02:00] determined to make her own way, and she did just that, and of all places the asset management industry. She built a career from the ground up all the way to the C e O seat.

Stacy: Heidi Ridley spent 18 years at AXA investment managers rising to global chief executive of Rosenberg equities. She spearheaded the effort to become the first E S G integrated quantitative equity investor, focused on the intersection of E S G insights and advanced factor solutions. She's been a finalist for Woman of the Year in the investment industry.

Stacy: Not once, but twice. Heidi is smart, she's determined, and she's brave. She's on a new journey now, her own entrepreneurial one, alongside her co-founder Catherine McDonald, a 20 year veteran and head of sustainable investing at Rosenberg equities. Together they launched [00:03:00] Radiant E S G, an invest boutique dedicated to investing in the companies at the intersection of positive change and quality fundamentals.

Stacy: It's also a journey of art and science, right brain and left brain performance and passion. There are people behind the portfolios. There are faces behind the factors and models. Today, you get a chance to meet someone who will make you rethink what you know about quant, about E S G and about authentic leadership.

Stacy: Prepare to be inspired. Without further ado, meet my friend Heidi Ridley. Heidi, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today. We've had a few chats, there's so many synergies between us, just professionally, personally, all the things. I am thrilled to welcome our [00:04:00] guests into the Radiant E s G studio where they can be a fly on that beautiful wall behind you.

Stacy: So thank you for being here. Yeah,

Heidi: thanks for having me. I'm super excited.

Stacy: Awesome. Well, We start at the beginning, my friend, with my favorite thing, which is of course your story. And as I always say to people, I'm gonna encourage you to start wherever you know you wanna start. You don't have to just make it like your career.

Stacy: If there was something that really drives you, that inspires your passion, go back as far as you wanna go. And tell us a little bit about your journey.

Heidi: Okay. Gosh, I think that, you know, a lot of the underpinnings probably date way, way back. I think, you know, first thing is I was born in Iran. My mom's American actually, but she comes from a Norwegian background and my dad's Iranian.

Heidi: And they met in Iran after my mom graduated from college and decided to go there to teach English. So I was born [00:05:00] there and I didn't come to the US until I was a little over one. And then we basically move back and forth. So my mom was a teacher. Oh. So Wow. So I would have. One school year in Iran, one school year in the US kind of back and forth.

Heidi: And when I was in Iran, I was in a bilingual school, so we ended up being en route to the US when the Iranian revolution broke out in 1979. So I was 10 years old and we just kind of, my dad lost everything. So we ended up permanently in the US sort of unexpectedly in a way. Mm-hmm. So that was kind of a, an interesting experience because on one hand, because my mom was American, I, you know, felt just as American as I did Iranian.

Heidi: And depending on the place, I sort of chameleon myself. But the challenge was that, so we moved here and I was going to school here, my sisters and I, and then the hostage crisis broke out. Mm-hmm. And what was really, I think, jarring [00:06:00] about that was that, you know, here I am going to an American school with my sisters and.

Heidi: You know, feeling very at home and comfortable. But because of our last name, when the revolution broke out and the, the hostages were taken, you know, we were really ostracized when we were in school because of that. And so all of a sudden, you know, you go from, you know, being very comfortable to feeling like an outsider kind of overnight.

Heidi: And that was a, you know, I feel like, I'm not sure I tapped into it at that age. Mm-hmm. But kind of looking back, I feel like that was sort of the start of. Really feeling the need to like, accept people, you know, and just, and not be judgmental and, you know, kind of things like that. So that was sort of the start of it.

Heidi: And, um, anyway, we tried to rebuild here and I think the second piece of it was that my dad really struggled with that. He, he was a serial entrepreneur, um, but like with super mixed results. So he started like a video game company that did really, really well, made me [00:07:00] certainly popular in our little town of Danville, but then he had other ventures that, you know, just did not pan out.

Heidi: And so it was a very stressful. Time where, you know, I mean, I had a paper route since I was really, really young and it sort of felt like my mom was working, you know, it was like a lot of chicken p, frozen chicken, pot pie dinner evenings, you know, kind of thing. And so the experience was to some degree, sort of offended for yourself.

Heidi: But also I sort of felt like I didn't wanna be a burden on my parents, you know, because they were already kind of, at this point, we're now four girls. I'm the oldest. And so, you know, to me, I kind of always felt like I needed to make my own way, which I think was a big part of it. And so when I went to school, I ended up taking out a bunch of student loans just to put myself through school.

Heidi: And believe it or not, oftentimes like borrowing on a credit card to pay something else, you know? So, I mean, I was creating a nice little debt hole for myself.

Stacy: I mean, it's not funny, but I [00:08:00] laugh because I get it. I get it. Keep going. Yeah, it was crazy. And I think

Heidi: the other, you know, one thing I do regret is that I.

Heidi: Worked all the way through college. I went to school at Berkeley and I worked at a restaurant there and also did tax, you know, worked at a tax firm during tax season. So I was always juggling like a couple of jobs plus school. And so I kind of felt like school was just a blur. College was just a blur.

Heidi: Mm-hmm. Like I didn't really, I feel like experienced it fully and I was sort of eager to get out, like at four, you know, I'm gonna graduate in four years and, and I started at pre-med. I, I got a scholarship to uc, Santa Barbara, and I went there on a, you know, biology a major, wanted to be pre-med, but I transferred after a quarter cuz I just decided a.

Heidi: I needed something a bit more serious. At the time, Santa Barbara wasn't, you know, as hard to get into as it is now. It's a bit more of a party school, but, so I transferred to Berkeley with the idea that, you know, I just [00:09:00] needed to do something that was gonna get me a job, like right away. And so, so anyway, long story short, I kind of stumbled into econ not really knowing anything about it, not really knowing what I wanted to do and working my way through college at, primarily at this restaurant that I loved.

Heidi: And so I, I actually thought I wanted to be kind of a, I wanted to own my own restaurant, you know, that was what I, oh wow. I wanted to do, I was waiting tables. I was a manager. I, you know, really enjoyed it. And so I stayed there after college and thought, you know, I'm gonna kind of give this a go. After about six or nine months I kind of thought, uh, I feel like maybe I need to do something different, you know, and maybe more serious.

Heidi: And so I at the time, looked in the newspaper. Do you remember? They would have the ads for like different jobs and Yes. I'll never forget it cuz there was a big ad in the middle that said Movers and Shakers. And I was like, oh, that got my attention. So I, yeah, I answered the ad and it turned out to be an executive recruiting firm, which [00:10:00] I didn't even know what that was.

Heidi: And so I ended up going in a meeting with them and I'm very split brained. You've talked about this a lot on your podcast. Yeah. Is I feel like I'm equally left and, and right-brained. And so I was going for everything from like a publishing job to accounting jobs. Like it was like, Yeah, I really honestly had no idea what I wanted to do.

Heidi: And long story short, I ended up landing at an investment banking firm in San Francisco called Montgomery Securities. And really what drew me to that was the team. And I think therein lies like the foundation for everything is culture, people, teams, you know, you spend so much time at work, it's like it's got, you've gotta be with people you enjoy who really, you know, are creative and keep you challenged and learning kind of all the time.

Heidi: And I worked with this really small team, um, that was actually focused on looking at new venture investments for Japanese clients. So I took Japanese for like a [00:11:00] semester. I was super into it. Oh, nice. So that was kinda the start of stumbling into a career. And at the time, investment banking, but ultimately I ended up transitioning into the asset management group of Montgomery Securities.

Heidi: So that was sort how I ended up in asset management. And by the way, I still worked at the restaurant at night, so I was working at the asset management firm during the day doing like present, putting together presentations, just any like support kind of role. Mm-hmm. And then working at nights at a restaurant to pay off those student loans.

Heidi: So it was an interesting

Stacy: time. Thank you for sharing that. And I'm sure it's, I know it's tough sometimes to sort of like hit on the things that are really. Drivers of our passion and our philosophy and kind of who we are and why we do what we do in a short amount of time. I think you did a really great job.

Stacy: I wanna spend a few minutes on, you know, now this sort of second half of, of [00:12:00] your story, which is now you're in asset management, you've just shared your, kind of doing anything and everything, just supporting roles. But my goodness, that's not where you ended up. So how did you go from, you know, your entry level job in asset management to where you are

Heidi: now?

Heidi: It's sometimes, you know, I wonder that myself,

Stacy: don't we all, it's

Heidi: funny cause I know people meet me. They feel like I'm very, you know, determined and Yeah, and ambitious. And so it's sort of like, I think they assume I had this like whole thing mapped out. Yeah. And the reality is it was one stumble after another, stumble in a positive way in the things that I, you know, didn't think I wanted to do.

Heidi: You know, things like that. And it just sort of, I don't know. It transpired is the way I would say it. But yeah, when I was, when I was first, um, an executive assistant to the head of the asset management group at Montgomery, who to this day I revere like he was just such an amazing men [00:13:00] and just supported it.

Heidi: And it, you know, I kind of feel like I grew into my confidence. So he was someone really, probably the first person other than my parents, who I think really believed in me. And so I remember going down to the trading floor in Montgomery Securities and being so impressed with the chaos. I loved it. Like it was just insanity down there.

Heidi: And so, you know, I went to Steven and I said, you know, I think I wanna be a traitor. And he thought I was crazy. And the funny thing, people later in my career have asked me like, You know, with women, like, have you ever had challenges or, you know, yeah. Been discriminated again or any of those things? Yeah.

Heidi: And the reality is I have, I have a very positive, you know, career path and I feel like there were a lot of men who were super supportive of me, so, My instinctual an answer is not really. I feel like I was lucky, you know? But then when I look back, that trading conversation was an interesting one because I went to Steven, I said, I really wanna be a [00:14:00] trader and li and I love him to death.

Heidi: But his response to me now, this was in the early nineties, his response to me was, you know, you can have a great career in asset management and not lose your femininity. Cause you know, the trading floor was like, Pretty much 98% met, you know? Oh my gosh, yes. At all. I love that. I was like, this is awesome.

Heidi: Yeah. And so we made a deal. I basically said, well, listen, I don't wanna be an executive assistant for the rest of my life, and I really want to, you know, grow in my career here. And so then another opportunity doesn't open up for me in six months within this firm. Mm-hmm. Then I want you to support me to get my, you know, license to become a trader.

Heidi: And we had a deal. And so then from there, you know, it was, I did get that promotion. I did, you know, interestingly, it was to do RFPs, which I was like, I wanted nothing to do with it. Cause of course, I, I'm a people person, I don't. Sit behind a desk and [00:15:00] write, you know, responses to like, describe your research process, you know, over and over and over again.

Heidi: Yeah. So I, I was, I did not like that idea at all and Steven was like, this is where you need to start. And in hindsight, it was honestly the biggest stepping stone because I learned so much about the company and how we did things. By Oh, responding to these questions and really thinking about the nuance, which I don't think a lot of people do.

Heidi: So, you know, there's like an R F P library. You get the question about research, you type in research, you take copy, paste, research, answer into here. But there's a big difference between what's your research philosophy versus mm-hmm. What's your research approach versus Yes. You know, how is your research organized?

Heidi: You know, like, you know, there's, so I started really thinking about those nuances and I think that really gave me a deeper understanding of the company, which was what I needed to then [00:16:00] become a salesperson, you know, move on to other roles. Mm-hmm. So that's just one example of something where you kind of go, yeah, that's not really for me.

Heidi: And then you look back and go, oh my gosh, I hadn't done that. I would've never been on this path, kind of thing. And

Stacy: just to kind of pull on that thread a little bit, it really does hit on. The power of narrative because in a way, what you were doing, and you said nuance, which I love. Like you were figuring out like what makes us, us, yeah.

Stacy: What makes us different, how do we communicate that in a way that, you know, people can understand it and process it and have it mean something to them. Yeah, and I can imagine certainly as you kind of evolved in your career and. Big time now as you sit here, as you know, the founder of a, an investment boutique.

Stacy: Like those are critical skills that probably get underplayed because it's asset management and you [00:17:00] should be good at math. Right,

Heidi: right, right. Yeah,

Stacy: absolutely. So you evolved there. Yeah. And maybe jump to where were you, you know, so obviously you have a, a big career. Where were you before you

Heidi: started Radiant?

Heidi: So I was at a firm called Rosenberg Equities. Uh, it was a pioneer in quant investing. Um, I, the firm was started in the mid eighties and had been on a pretty good path to success. I joined the firm when we were about 14 billion and we grew at the peak to 150 billion with offices, you know, around the world.

Heidi: And I was heading up distribution in North America and then took over as head of global client services. And so again, another role where I was like, You know, I'm more, you know, wanting to build relationships. You know, I'm not, you know, so good at like servicing, you know, relationships, right. But actually, you know, again, I feel like that just gave me a different perspective [00:18:00] on the client servicing model that I really think help, you know, ultimately helped improve things.

Heidi: But, you know, it was at a time when the firm hit a really, a pretty big crisis and challenge. And so being the leader of the folks that are on the front line was really an eye-opening experience. And, but, you know, also showed me, I think that in some ways the depth of my resilience and commitment, because I really felt it was a special place.

Heidi: It really was. It had a really unique culture, great team, very eclectic, diverse, and I just loved it. And so I really was committed to seeing the firm through that. And ultimately, you know, again, in the category of like, how did you end up where you ended up Yeah. Head of client service and, and when. They brought in ultimately a new c e o and, you know, I was really kind of leading this effort to kind of stabilize and rebuild the firm.

Heidi: And so he asked me to be his right hand as coo. So I, I moved into [00:19:00] that role kind of again, unexpectedly kind of a chief of staff type of, of role and just a little detour in that I was super nervous about taking on that role because there was a woman in that role before me who, you know, the functions like risk and, you know, legal and operations and all that reported to that role.

Heidi: And I thought, wow, this woman was very technically strong when it came to like, mm, operations and risk management and things like that. And I thought, my background is distribution and, you know, leading teams. And so I kind of felt like, how am I gonna fill these shoes? And it was probably the first time that I realized that.

Heidi: I don't need to fill someone else's shoes. You know, a lot of times when roles change, they change for a reason and because the company needs something different. And so they're not really looking for you to replace the person that was there one for one, they're looking for what is gonna take the company forward.

Heidi: And at that [00:20:00] time we were integrating our functions anyway with the big parent company. So I wasn't gonna be directly responsible for those functions in any case. And so I really focused on the team, how do we secure, retain, motivate, engage our teams after this big thing that everyone kind of had been through.

Heidi: And so I kind of put my own mark on it and it w and I was in that, that was the longest role I've been in, in a company, was seven years in that role cuz I've stayed with companies for a long time, but changed roles within Sure. And then, then my, my predecessor CEO decided to move on and, and, uh, I was the first kind of internally appointed, uh, CEO successor, which again, Scared me to test.

Heidi: Yeah, that was pretty nerve wracking. But you know, you get that imposter syndrome for sure. But yes, I, you know, really felt [00:21:00] supported by the team, by the company. I felt like people were really rooting for me. I. Especially with the relationships that I had built. And so I kind of felt this real sense of, of responsibility to help take the firm forward.

Heidi: So I was there ultimately 18 years before I Wow. Decided to leave. And therefore it was a huge decision because I really thought I was gonna be a lifer there. The company meant a lot to me. The people really continue to mean a lot to me. I still see a lot of them. So it was a big, it was a huge decision, not the least of which was my dad's very mixed experience.

Heidi: I never wanted to be an entrepreneur. I always loved being kinda like the wizard behind the curtains, like having like a consigliere, like having influence and responsibility, but not like you're, you know, you are the one, like this is on you. You know what I mean?

Stacy: We'll be back in a moment after a word from our premier brand partner Ultimas Fund

Heidi: Solutions.

Heidi: Since our founding in [00:22:00] 1989, we believe that alternative investments are integral part of client portfolios. Unfortunately, delivering high quality hedge funds and private market exposures has always been a challenge for the wealth management industry. These type of alternative investments introduce unique challenges related to taxes, qualifications, paperwork, and reporting.

Heidi: As a result, high net worth investors tend to be significantly under allocated to both hedge funds and private markets relative to institutional

Stacy: investors. That's Stephanie Lang, chief Investment Officer from Homrich Berg, an 11 billion R I a, headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia. That serves over 2,700 clients in 46 states.

Stacy: You can tell they believe in helping high net worth clients, access hedge funds and other alternative investments. They're equally as passionate about broadening that access for all their clients, not just qualified purchasers [00:23:00] or a select group of accredited investors. Meet Nick Darsh from Ultimas with some backstory.

Heidi: Palmer Berg created a three C1 fund in January, 1999 to provide their high net worth and institutional investors with ready access to a diversified portfolio of hedge funds. As interest in the fund grew and the constraint of the a hundred investor rule, loom began exploring ways to continue expanding the investor pool without negatively affecting existing shareholders.

Stacy: We'll hear more about the creative fund conversion work that made it possible later in the show. Now, back to the program. We will be back in a moment after a word from our premier brand partner, Ultimas Fund

Heidi: Solutions. When we first launched our internal fund of funds as a limited partnership, it was a great option for us to be able to provide a [00:24:00] hundred of our accredited and qualified purchaser clients with access to a diversified portfolio of hedge fund strategies.

Heidi: However, fast forward to 2016, our firm had grown to manage over 4 billion and serve over a thousand clients of various sizes, accreditations, and tax situations. We still firmly believe that high quality hedge fund exposure is important to client portfolios. It provides stability to client portfolios and generates a return stream that was not available in public and equity and fixed income markets.

Heidi: Unfortunately, the three C one structure with its slot limitations high minimums and K one reporting was no longer ideal solution for our growing and complex client base. We looked at various alternative options with third party hedge fund managers, liquid hedge mutual funds, but also discovered that we had an opportunity to register our fund with the S e c preserve its extensive track record, and solve all of [00:25:00] the issues that the three C one structure was creating for our business and clients.

Heidi: That's when we teamed up with Ultima to begin the process of registering our legacy fund with the S E C and converting it to a tender offer fund.

Stacy: We'll hear more later in the show now, back to the program.

Stacy: That is super interesting, that last piece for sure because I hadn't, you know, kind of connected that storyline. But I imagine when you decide to make this leap, I can see why that would come back around and get bubble up for you. So let's talk about that. So you decide that you wanna start your own investment boutique, and I know there's a team around you and so talk about like it is a very big decision by the way.

Stacy: So let's just pause on that before I even ask the next question. I think many times what I see is that you get a very talented. [00:26:00] Portfolio manager. Yeah, executive. They decide, Hey, you know, I'm really talented at this thing. Like I'm really good at my craft and so I'm gonna build a business around that craft.

Stacy: And what they underestimate, and I say they, I should say we because I happen to be too, is that you can be very, very good at your craft. Right. But now you also have to get good at entrepreneurship, to your point about your dad. Yeah. And so it's a big decision to go out on your own. And so what was the vision like?

Stacy: What drove you forward on that? There was

Heidi: two elements that came to play, I guess. One was I really had a vision for what I thought Rosenberg could be, you know, post. The crisis and you know, we stabilized, the firm survived, you know, it was a great team. And so a lot of the foundational, I guess, ideas and vision for Radiant [00:27:00] came from what I thought I could do and wanted to do with Rosenberg.

Heidi: So it put it this way, it had been a in the making for quite, yes, a bit of time. I was trying to pull out some unique features, really trying to solve multiple objectives for our clients and just think about how we could kind of stand out in a crowd where a lot of people have, you know, bigger, stronger brands than we do.

Heidi: So the vision kind of formed there. What ended up, you know, Triggering the like, okay, now I need to go do it on my own. Was I think trying to convince others, you know, when we were a very small piece of a large organization, so there were a lot of competing priorities. And so for me, I think in that process I really convinced myself that I really had something mm-hmm.

Heidi: In the vision that I wanted to build that was special and worth pursuing. And you know, at the end of the day, I have to say a lot of frustration kind of probably was what tipped it over. Sure. And just made me feel [00:28:00] like I've just gotta take this opportunity, you know, now. And I was very fortunate, my husband was super supportive, he really believed in it.

Heidi: And so, you know, I just decided to, to take the leap and it was a very difficult decision to say goodbye. To my team and in particular because I announced that I stayed on an advisory role for many months. It was a very mutual, you know, departure. The company was really great to me, but, but I announced I was leaving on March 9th, 2020, which was the day that the markets, is that camera cracking up?

Stacy: No, I'm laughing because of 2020. It's like you're gonna launch your new business. Like right in the face of it was right in the face. And by the

Heidi: way, you know, I had literally like little detour the last week of February. I was in London with our team. I was in Paris with the par, you know, with the parent company, just kind of working through what we needed to do with the transitional.

Heidi: I'm on the [00:29:00] tube, I'm the London Underground, shoulder to shoulder with a million other people. Oh my gosh. Seeing death. I had no idea this, no one was really. Kind of talking about it then. Right. And I remember being on my fir the first, the flight home, which was the, like the end of last day of February.

Heidi: And about 10, 15% of people had masks on. And I thought, wow, really? Like, that's super conservative, you know? And next thing you know Yeah. You're like, I don't know. Yeah. And then, so then on March 9th, the markets fell off a cliff that were totally imploding. And this is the day that I'm like announcing that I'm, I'm leaving to pursue something else.

Heidi: It was a very emotional day. And in some ways it was nice to just get the it off my chest, you know? But it was a very emotional day and, and so by the end of that week, I was pretty exhausted and my husband said, let's go to Tahoe. It's snowing, you know, know great ski weekend and just decompressed. It's now [00:30:00] out there, you know, whatever.

Heidi: And Monday, the world went on lockdown. So. I left an 18 year career with a company that I deeply, you know, loved and never really even got to say, you know, goodbye in any sort of, you know what I mean? It was like, I mean the team was so cute cause we did zooms and so they organized where everyone like held up like a thank you thing, honestly.

Heidi: Ah, but it was, you know, it was strange to kind of, that is literally go from always having worked to now I'm not working. And our on lockdown, like, yeah, it was bizarre.

Stacy: Wow. Okay. So, and you're like, Hmm, I just like give entrepreneurship a whirl in the middle of a pandemic. No big deal. Right. So, amazing.

Stacy: Thank you for sharing all of that. So, let's dive in a little bit on Radiant. And you're co-founder, right? There's two of you. Was it, the two of you founded it together? Okay. Yeah. So talk about the vision for Radiant. You know, you decide you're gonna have this investment boutique, you know, what were the, the [00:31:00] driving philosophies of why the world needs another investment boutique?

Stacy: Exactly. Which, oh, by the way, I'm solidly in the camp that Yes it does.

Heidi: Well, I'm glad to hear that. I mean, I, you know, it's funny, that was the first question I thought of is why in the world does the world lead asset management firm? But you know, honestly, I've been in this industry more than 30 years now and you know, sadly, not a lot has changed.

Heidi: I mean, stability in some ways is a good thing, but the world around us I think is changing so significantly. And I still see so many anchors to like what's worked in the past and real reluctance to embrace change. I mean, I think that's one of the biggest things that I did in my prior job was just keep pushing on the fact that change can bring about really positive things.

Heidi: It could be jarring, it can make you uncomfortable. Yes. But at the same time, if you see it for the opportunity, it can just be so significant and very, very positive. So I really think we need to, generally [00:32:00] speaking, reshape this business for relevancy in a future that is going to look very different from the past.

Heidi: We cannot kid ourselves that that is not absolutely, you know, underway. And so, you know, I really wanted to, to have a purpose built firm with that objective. And so I think Catherine and I, Catherine is our head of sustainability at Rosenberg and we go back a long way. She was there more than 20 years.

Heidi: We've worked together a long time and so, you know, we left top roles at a prior firm because we really had a clear vision of what we wanted to build and how we wanted to build it. And what that was was, you know, we've really taken. I think a little bit unique from other emerging managers is we've taken very senior experienced people with like decades of experience and the best d n A of that firm of an investment thought leader and kind of enhanced it with this sort of fresh entrepreneurial perspective and.

Heidi: In doing that, I think we've significantly improved on, you know, what we did before, kind of [00:33:00] leveraging alternative data and new and cutting edge tools that weren't available to us 20, 30 years ago. You know, and I think the key thing, a lot of times, you know, people focus on the downside risk to a boutique or an emerging manager, but.

Heidi: There's so much, we're like, we're not stuck with legacy systems or mindsets. Oh yeah. You know, that can't keep up with the world that's moving beyond them. You know, we have a unique ability to be innovative, nimble, conviction based. And so importantly, you know, I feel like we really wanted to create a firm that lives its beliefs thoroughly.

Heidi: And I know that that will resonate with you because Yeah, 100% does. Contrary to popular belief, that is not the norm. Yeah. You know, we wanted to do things the way we think that should be done and to be very forward leaning on E S G and impact, which I know is a political landline right now, but I don't care cuz I think that there's so much materiality and economic value in these [00:34:00] non-financial considerations about a company.

Heidi: That these are gonna be the companies that are gonna be on the right side of change, full stop. And so that's what we wanted to do was build a better way to assess companies in a world that's gonna be very different than the one we've been living in for the past, you know, several decades. So, I mean, that's sort of the concept.

Heidi: So

Stacy: now I have a question because you know, I'm sitting here and if I am familiar, you know, with Rosenberg, and obviously you've touched on it a little bit, and I know in my head I'm like, huh, quant. And now here you are saying like, I. E s G and impact, which I think of very qualitatively. Mm-hmm. Absolutely.

Stacy: So can you kind of talk about those two, which probably fits with your left brain, right brain, right? Where Anne's not ours, but can you talk about how those two things marry up for you? Like would you say you're quant?

Heidi: I would say we're systematic. A lot of people do them as one and the same, but what I would say is, mm-hmm We've taken a lot of the very beneficial tools [00:35:00] that a systematic process gives us.

Heidi: So I do believe, even though the data is less progressed, certainly with E S G and you have new data providers every day, you know, that need to be assessed. I personally think someone with a quant background absolutely should have an advantage because we are used to assessing data sets for quality. For relevancy, for whether there's any insight from the information that's there, whether it's, you know, a very slick interface, but once you dig underneath, there's, it's like not a lot of substance.

Heidi: You know, we're used to dealing with unwieldy things. We're used to dealing with mapping and information. There's a lot of benefits and. Quants know how to deal with alternative data sets, I think, in different ways. And so what one thing a systematic process gives us being a small team and a startup, is efficiency, scale, discipline.

Heidi: And if we can take the type of detail analysis [00:36:00] any fundamental manager anyone would wanna do on a particular company, and codify that into a model and be able to do that detailed analysis across all companies, instead of having to do like a screening process to get it down to the couple of hundred we're really gonna spend time on.

Heidi: So we're bringing the detail, I guess, upstream. And so that's part of the benefit of systematic process. Now, ESG is different in that most quants really like to take comfort in back testing their way into competence. And you, you cannot do that with E S G data. And so, It is very critical that we are investors first and quant second.

Heidi: And what I mean by that is we try to model everything we possibly can so that it's very systematic void of behavioral biases and all these things, but at the end, we're not gonna just take the output of the models and hit trade, you know? So the [00:37:00] team really spends time on the recommendations to really understand if they fit with our expectations, particularly around what we know about the company from an E S G perspective, is there something the model isn't capturing that we need to be thinking about?

Heidi: And so there's this final sort of qualitative review before we implement the portfolios precisely because we're dealing with something that's new and evolving. And so it's kind of a marriage of art and science, but I think a really important one where we try to lean as heavily as we can on the science, which also enables us to bring in new ideas, very quickly, test those ideas, understand them and all of that.

Heidi: But we can't stop at having that fiduciary responsibility of really looking through every stop and saying, does this pass the sniff test? You know? So that's sort of how we're handling it, which is pretty different. And for a quant, most people expect quants, generally [00:38:00] speaking, to hold hundreds of stocks.

Heidi: You know, really be focused on risk, you know, stocks for risk purposes as much as for alpha purposes. You know, generally speaking, they're not talking about any single position. It's more about features of groups of companies, you know, things like that. Where we're different is we're running 60 to 70 stock portfolios.

Heidi: They're, for us, pretty high conviction. We can talk about every position in the portfolio, why it's there, and that's unique. So we, you know, in some cases, some would say we're straddling the fence. I would say we're carving our own path Yeah. Of what we think is the right way to do it. And it's. Maybe not gonna fit every perfect box, but we think it's the right way to do it.

Heidi: But

Stacy: isn't that the thing though? That is the thing. It's like, look, we don't have to fit every box. We don't have to be for everybody. We are for somebody specific. Right. And I think that you articulated that beautifully, that look, you know, some people might. Like just [00:39:00] qualitative, fundamental investors. And that's fine.

Stacy: And some people might like totally systematic, quantitative investors, and that's fine. If you're just a purist in either one of those camps, maybe we're not for you. And guess what? That's okay. Yeah, absolutely. Because this is who we are and we own it, and we are looking for like-minded investors who share this philosophy.

Stacy: That's right. Awesome. That's authenticity. Yeah,

Heidi: it's, I mean it's, for me, it's very liberating. Totally. It feels really good to just be very conviction driven in what you do, and have that strong belief system and really invest in it. You know, especially now with the backdrop we have, you know, we're leaning even more heavily because, you know, for us, E S G in particular, it's not a way for us to express our values.

Heidi: It's not a way for us to have a political stance. It's not a way for us to exclude groups of companies because some arbitrary score says they're not so great. For us, it's about really [00:40:00] understanding the ecosystem in which a company operates, and it's more than its financials. Where is a company physically located these days with climate change?

Heidi: Which yes is real, you know, how does a company dela engage with its supply chain? How does the company work with its labor force? Treat its labor force? What do NGOs have to say about this company? Let's not just lean on everything the company says about itself. Let's look at what others have to say about the company, as shocking as that might seem.

Heidi: And finally, you know, let's not just look in the rear view mirror or look at the company today and say, Hmm, they're not so great. And so therefore, because we're in public equities, we're not robbing these companies of capital. So for us it's about where is this company going? Nowhere else in finance are we looking in the rear view mirror.

Heidi: Our job is to predict the future. Our job is to look at who we're gonna be the winners of the future. And for us, a big part of that is the company's environmental, social and governance footprint. As much as it is, [00:41:00] is the company fundamentally and financially sound? And do we think that they're gonna continue to improve in the future?

Heidi: So for us, it's very, very material, very economically founded. And at the end of the day, we wouldn't be in business if we weren't here to try to outperform for our clients. Right. So, you know, that's really kind of the soapbox that we, we can tend to get on when we see things like e s G get political crosshairs.

Stacy: So interesting and, and I think that that actually is a great dovetail to my next question or topic because. Whatever you wanna call it, greenwashing, whatever. E S G was like the hot thing. Maybe it still is, but like everybody jumped on the E S G train, right? Lot of huge companies said, oh yeah, we have something, we have a sustainable fund, or we have an impact fund, or we have an e sg process.

Stacy: Sure. Here it is. And so I wonder, and I'm sure you have a lot to say about that in general, but I wonder, I wonder, so here you are, you're this investment [00:42:00] boutique, you know, co-founded by two very successful women. You're building this great thing and. You're already battling the odds and now you have these big, huge behemoth companies who are also getting into the game with you.

Stacy: So do you feel like a boutique is an advantage here or a disadvantage or talk us through that.

Heidi: Well, I mean, it's a good question there. There're almost, I parse it almost into two things. Like in general, and I'll come back to the ESG thing, but in general is a boutique of benefit or not? I mean, I'd like to think it's a huge advantage.

Heidi: Mm-hmm. But you know, I think despite some studies that, that have pointed to the outperformance of emerging managers for I think very obvious reasons, honestly, I don't think the vast majority see it that way. I think in, in some cases they want to, but the gravitational pull to past success, big brands.

Heidi: And the idea of too big to fail is just too strong. You know, I've often heard no one's gonna [00:43:00] fire you if you've hired an established, well-known brand and things go sideways cuz who's gonna blame you? They're an established, well known brand and that's what we're up against. You know who's gonna go first?

Heidi: And I think honestly, The traditional hurdles of three year track record and a hundred million in a u m is really about taking comfort and someone else going first. That's what it boils down to, you know, and I think the funny thing is that despite the, the depth of experience and the credibility of our team, which I do think is unique for a typical startup in general, people, like I said before, disproportionately focus on the risks associated to being new.

Heidi: Sometimes to the degree that they don't even think about the potential benefits, which are significant. I mean, we've done, I would say we were very deliberate in the design of the company and finding a strategic partner because. We wanted to do everything we could to having been the c e O of a firm, I can totally appreciate the concerns that an asset owner would have about a [00:44:00] startup.

Heidi: Right? Do you have the resources? Are you gonna be around three years from now? Is this bandaids and sticks outta your garage? You know what I mean? So we've done everything we can to try to mitigate those risks and give people confidence. And I think we probably need to do more to highlight all of the benefits.

Heidi: Yeah, which has probably been the most exciting part of going out on our own. I mean, the team is hugely invested. They sincerely wanna make an impact and build something. You know, we and our clients can be really proud of. The ability to be innovative, flexible, nimble is huge. I mean, I've been in focus groups where it took us nine months to like name a font, you know, I mean, it's, it's, and then by the time, by the way, by, and you're doing that, so you can do a campaign to market it.

Heidi: And by the time you do that, you're like, oh, the performance is turned around now. We can't, you know, forget it. So the, for us, you know, the degree of creativity honestly knows no bounds. Like for us, it's a matter of prioritization. That's super exciting. So, you know, being able to, that's really fun to take that experience, you know, decades of [00:45:00] experience, knowing what works, what doesn't, and build something exactly the way we want it.

Heidi: You know, not bound to legacy mindset. You know, established organizations don't adapt that easily. No. Even if they want to, it's a process to get it funneled all the way down, or to get the movement to come from the bottom up. Right. And you know, it's often more evident in organizations that have met with success because that success sort of serves as a form of validation, as an anchor to, you know, what's worked in the past.

Heidi: And certainly I would say that those who've personally benefited from that success are naturally reluctant to do things differently. You know, so they kind of cl to this, the comforts of the past. Yeah. And that's how status quo and business as usual, you know, become sort of deep seated defenders against change.

Heidi: I mean, the reality is that conventional thinking isn't gonna fuel in a innovative ideas, and you can't unleash creativity from like the bounds of bureaucracy, you know? So [00:46:00] I would bet on a boutique all day long. Now when it comes to that is so

Stacy: good. Yeah,

Heidi: please, that's a different ballgame because I feel like I.

Heidi: In many ways we're lean, like I said earlier, we're leaning in because we are very comfortable to use. A phrase I've used often and I've heard you use very often as well, is we have to be willing to repel, to attract, and I feel so strongly that there's material information and it's our fiduciary responsibility to think about these things currently being acronymed as E S G, but whatever you want call it, it's part of our job.

Heidi: And so what I find interesting is some of those larger firms that we're all jumping on the bandwagon, and by the way, it's been in their DNA all along. Did we not know this? You know, from the early days? Wow. They all always been concerning. Some of them are walking it back and Are they, yeah. What will be really interesting.

Heidi: I know the pendulum will swing [00:47:00] because it's just silly. Honestly, it's silly. And we're not doing ourselves a service as an industry by. Quieting things down in, I guess, political pressure because we're just giving more room for uninformed voices, you know, at the table. But it'll be really interesting when the pendulum swings and people realize that there is materiality and those same firms start to go back to, oh, but it's our core belief.

Heidi: It's been in our, it'll be really interesting to see that. And so, you know, for us, I'm just taking a lot of comfort and enthusiasm and being able to stand for something I believe in, and we'll see where it ends up. I mean, I think a lot of the greenwashing honestly happens for two reasons. One, people are trying to be all things to all people, or bend themselves into a pretzel to be where they think the flows are gonna go.

Heidi: And to me, when you try to [00:48:00] be all things to all people, you're nothing to nobody. Yes. And you know, and then I also think there's this. Such a willingness to say something that's different than what you believe and do. Like, if there was just that discipline of we do what we say, we say what we do, it would mitigate a lot of greenwashing type of things.

Heidi: You know, you don't put something in a report that you can't demonstrate or validate, you know, things like that. It seems like 1 0 1 to me, but shockingly, it is what it is.

Heidi: It is what it is.

Stacy: And you know, gosh, I mean, of course I'm practic like jumping outta my seat over here, but the things you're saying resonates so deeply with me. You know, the bandwagon watching the bandwagon thing go on in E S G was just, I mean, anybody who's been around for a while can spot that a mile away, right?

Stacy: So you need a shakeout in [00:49:00] order to see who's still there, right? Who really believed who did it because. They saw the money and who did it because. They believed it was the right thing to do, and they have a system to harness that on behalf of their investors. And so I applaud you for acknowledging it and saying what a lot of people are thinking, what needs to be said, and building a sustainable business that takes sustainability into account.

Stacy: This isn't a flash in the pan for you, and I really appreciate that. I wanna touch on. You know, this is a really interesting question and I think about it given your style of investing. But one of the other things that I talk a lot about that I think really matters always in investing, but particularly when you're a boutique, is the importance of qualitative due diligence.

Stacy: Mm-hmm. And obviously the reason it matters so much when you're a boutique, when you're a startup is you don't have the data. So sure, you could create some back tests, but the reality is an investor in a boutique is [00:50:00] investing for very different reasons than somebody who is further out on the adoption curve that is, you know, investing in the big brand cuz they don't wanna get fired.

Stacy: Like those are two very different mindsets, two very different personalities, two very different adoption curve spots, if you will. And so, I wonder though, for you, given that quantitative is so much in your D n A, like, how does that vibe for you when you're talking with investors? Do you find that qualitative is important or because you have a systematic side to do, they wanna dig into data

Heidi: more?

Heidi: No, I think that, I actually think the qualitative is super important. At the end of the day, I think people, they put too much into the quant word. At the end of the day, we are codifying our intellectual capital. These are our minds, our thinking, our insights that are going in the models. It's not like we're buying something off the shelf.

Heidi: Right. You know what I mean? And pushing a button. And so, you know, it's important to understand what our thinking is, what is our [00:51:00] philosophy? What drives our investment thesis? Because that's what's going into the models. You know what I mean? And so, and I think it's especially important when it's a boutique and a startup.

Heidi: I'm well aware. People wanna hear from the founder, you know, why? Why are we doing what we're doing? Right? Why do we think it's gonna be successful? And so I think that that is a piece that we lean on quite heavily. You know, why did we feel like we needed to go out on our own to do what, what we're doing?

Heidi: And that, I hope, will become an increasingly important feature. I think at the end of the day, you know, people do try to quantify as much as they can because then it maybe allows you to be a little bit more easily comparing firms. Mm-hmm. Cause you can kind of number on this and number on this and add it all up and see who has the biggest number.

Heidi: But I find that our conversations have been deeper than that, which I find very refreshing, honestly. And people seem to be. Open to hearing our story, which I'm grateful for. I [00:52:00] mean, having had a background in sales and business development and all of that, it's not easy to get meetings.

Stacy: If you know a fund manager or a founder in the investment world with a great story, drop a note to Stacy stacy haner.com and tell me about it.

Stacy: Till next time, I'm Stacy Haner. Thanks for listening. And now a final word from our premier brand partner, Ultimas

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Heidi: People have plenty of choices and not a lot of time. Yeah. And so we're super grateful to those who've given us at least an audience, you know, to this point. And I think one of the things that I. I find most flattering is when I'm talking about what we're doing. And actually someone said this to me, they're like, well, too bad I'm not passionate about it.

Heidi: You know, jokingly. And so I'm like, oh great, I'm glad it comes across that way. You know? So I do think that's changing. And the focus on the qualitative less maybe, you know, totally quantifiable elements are becoming. Important.

Stacy: I love to hear that because I've often said, like people have asked me, being that I'm just, you know, super passionate to stay on the passion vibe about, you know, authenticity and storytelling.

Stacy: They're like, well, what if it's quant? I mean, people do business with people. There's people behind those models. What do you think? Just running themselves in a room with no interaction from humans, like Yeah, I loved what you said [00:55:00] about, it's our inputs. Yes, we're codifying it. Yes, we're making it systematic, but it's our intellectual capital.

Stacy: It's our thoughts as human beings, as you know, students of the market, as people who've lived this for years and years and years. So sure it's systematic, but the underpinnings are still very, very human.

Heidi: Right. Absolutely. And by the way, therein lies another, I would say, benefit of a quant approach, is that what we are ultimately going to be doing is codifying successive generations of intellectual capital into these models.

Heidi: And just cuz someone leaves doesn't mean we lose those insights cuz they're already embedded. Right. You know, and so I think there's a lot that gets sort of lost because sometimes I think there's this assumption again that you're like getting this thing that you're buying off the shelf and kind of like it's generic and you're just pushing a button and it's doing its thing, you know, as opposed to something you're like, Building yourself.

Heidi: You know what I mean?

Stacy: Yeah. And how does authenticity, you know, and kind of the qualitative [00:56:00] piece show up for you? Because I imagine that here you've spent decades working in very big organizations with a lot of politics and just big organizational stuff. Bureaucracy and what? Politics and suit a lot of suits.

Stacy: They were probably blue. Like how does that feel for you? How has the journey been for you as a founder? Like have you been able to tap into your authenticity more and kind of share your personal brand? It's a journey for all of us, by the way. Yeah. So it's okay if the answers I'm still on that journey.

Stacy: Yeah, no,

Heidi: definitely. I mean, it took a minute. Yeah. I have to say that I am very aware of, I like to think I'm pretty self-aware, but I'm also very aware of other people and their body language and things like that. And I will say that when I first joined Rosenberg, I mean, it was a very eclectic group of people and lots of PhDs, lots of super [00:57:00] cerebral people.

Heidi: And here comes this like Persian meets Scorpio meets a type bull in a China shop. And there was no doors on the offices. And I mean, I don't need a mic like you have cuz I have a really loud voice. So I'm thinking, how the heck am I gonna, you know, work in here? And so it wasn't easy for me to just show up as Heidi, like on day one at Rosenberg.

Heidi: But I have to say that I tried to mute myself and just until the point at which I felt like I had gained people's trust, that they understood that I was wanting the best for the company. And when I got to that point, I got to be more and more and more. My true stuff. Now, I would never say that I would do something that'd be completely against, but I, you know, I just was maybe more contained, like that kind of thing.

Heidi: Sure. But over time I was anything but [00:58:00] contained because people knew and were very, very clear that it was always about putting the company first and my team first, and so, mm-hmm. I'm grateful for that because now that I'm where I am, I mean, I can. I feel very much more comfortable. I've been much more open on LinkedIn than I ever had before just because I, you know, when the mood strikes, I've just never really been good at being told what to do or to try, you know, fitting a mold.

Heidi: I'm sort of more of a break the mold kind of gal. But I, I mean, I try to be diplomatic and thoughtful. I don't think I'm disruptive without thought or care about the potential, you know, consequences. But I, I guess I hope that, you know, if you spoke to anyone who's worked with me over the years that they, they would say that I'm sort of what you see as what you get kind of person, you know, I'm probably honest to a fault and I'm deeply personal.

Heidi: I really am deeply personal in a way that, that in this industry may seem [00:59:00] surprising, but everything, including work is very personal to me. You know, I'm, I'm very heart led, which I think is generally again, unusual, but it's allowed me, I think, to really. Feel to really be open, which has allowed others to, I think, feel like they can be open with me.

Heidi: And I think achieving that level of trust is really the greatest gift, especially when you're trying to lead a team of people. So I'm like, all my gosh. And like I said, probably too much, too much like that, but,

Stacy: well, it is refreshing and I mean, what a beautiful place to pause here. And also, let me just say, as a LinkedIn super fan myself, a great invitation for people who are listening to connect with Heidi on LinkedIn and follow along on her journey there.

Stacy: So Heidi, before we close out, I wanna. Switch gears a little bit. Let's stay on this authenticity, like people do business with people personal. I have a couple questions I [01:00:00] wanna ask that are inspired by Proust's questionnaire, but really inspired by James Lipton from Inside the Actor's Studio, which I was talking with someone.

Stacy: Yeah. That was such fantastic, a great show. Wasn't it a great show? And someone was like, love. Oh yeah. Well what I remember was Will Ferrell playing him on Saturday Night Live, and I'm like, well that just is really true and funny, but like, come on, I'm trying to be serious here. I'm getting in touch with my like, you know, philosophical side.

Stacy: But anyway, so you've seen the show. Thank you. That makes me feel less old when I talk to some people. They're like, I dunno it. Okay, so we're gonna start with hopefully an easy one. Okay. But I'm, you know, I might bite my tongue on that. So what book inspires you? Well,

Heidi: I, I would've said Andre Agassi's biography open, but unfortunately, Dan.

Heidi: Beat me to it on your two podcasts ago, which by the way was an excellent podcast. Thank you. He's great. So I was

Stacy: rack, you know,

Heidi: I'm racking my brain about that cuz [01:01:00] honestly, I hate to say it, but I don't have a lot of downtime. So most of what I read is I industry related or about leadership, uh, which is something I'm very passionate about and I haven't read, you know, really anything along those lines that I would necessarily say were inspiring.

Heidi: That's a very important word. Yeah. So I think what really inspires me actually is reading notes that I've received from, from people that I've worked with over the years. It's very meaningful to me when people, you know, write me an email or write me a card or write me a note. And so I, I have a box that I keep with all those in there.

Heidi: Occasionally kind of just, you know, nostalgically flip through it. It's very uplifting actually, to feel like you've made an impact on people's lives. So I don't have a great book recommendation, but, well, I love that recommendation. Keep those notes and look back on them. They're, you know,

Stacy: so I love that recommendation and I like, I'm looking at my bookcase right now and I have a box sitting on my bookcase.

Stacy: It's [01:02:00] turquoise with gold spots on it, and it contains, All the notes and emails that people send me and I do the same thing. Mm-hmm. And honestly, especially as an entrepreneur, you know, the advice of protecting your confidence is so important. And those notes, like the time you spend reading those things, they will lift you up.

Stacy: They will remind you that you're really good at what you do and that what you're doing matters and that who you are matters. And so I love that. I think that's a wonderful inspiration to

Heidi: share. Yeah. I read one yesterday and it caused me to actually reach out to the person who wrote it. Oh. And I hadn't talked to, you know, we haven't connected in a couple years, so, and I just called out of the group and I was like, Hey, I just reread your note and it really meant a lot.

Heidi: And we had a great catch-up conversation, so

Stacy: That's wonderful. Love that. Okay, so let's go to place. What place inspires you? What's your happy place?

Heidi: Oh, well, I would say Tahoe is [01:03:00] definitely. A happy place because usually it involves my husband and my boys all being together. Mm. But in terms of inspiration, I mean like a proper, I mean, Italy is my favorite place on earth.

Heidi: Wow. So that would be the more exotic choice, I think.

Stacy: But they're both very good. And I think as somebody who's traveled a lot sometimes, and you're not the only person to say this, by the way, sometimes the most inspiring place when you're used to being on the road is being home. Like being Yeah, absolutely.

Stacy: You know, with your people in a place that means something special to you. So I like both of those shares. Okay. So now we're gonna paint a, a picture. We are going to pretend that you are a literal, rockstar musician. You're walking out into a big stadium, and you've got thousands of your fans. You know, this is weird because if you were a musician, they'd probably play your music.

Stacy: So let's say you're, you're just, you're. Yeah, I never thought about that until this moment. [01:04:00] So scratch that. You're not a musician, but you're walking out, you're you, you're walking out onto stage in front of thousands of your enduring fans and you're gonna talk with them. You're gonna tell them your story, all the things.

Stacy: What song do they play as you take the stage? What's your walkout anthem?

Heidi: Legendary. Legendary. Wait, it's by which one? Actually, arms. We're gonna have to look this up. You have to look it up. I actually printed the lyrics out for my whole team and had them listen to the song on our first day. What, weirdly, I've never heard of the group before, but I'm a very music driven person.

Heidi: Like songs have, yeah. Different points in my life I can pinpoint to different songs. And that song happened to be the first song that came on my playlist. After I told my company that, like the executives that I was leaving, wow. And I was excited about Radiant and this song came on. And I mean, some of the words are like, you know, we're gonna be legends.

Heidi: We're gonna get their [01:05:00] attention. What we're doing here ain't just scary. It's about to be legendary. So it was just like such a motivator for me. So, and the team loved it

Stacy: too. So I love that you're taking me back to high school when you used to, this is really gonna date, date me here, but I'm gonna say it anyway.

Stacy: Remember when you used to cover your textbooks with brown paper bags? Yep. And then you'd write lyrics. Well, if you were me, you wrote lyrics on them. Like all your little inspiring things. Yeah. See that would be something I would've written on the cover of my textbook, cuz I would've wanted to see that every day.

Stacy: Love that. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. You

Heidi: have to listen to the song. That's a very

Stacy: cool song. Okay. I'm very excited about that one. Okay. What profession, other than your own, would you like to attempt

Heidi: maybe. A motivational speaker or

Stacy: coach? Oh no. Either that or race

Heidi: car driver. Race car driver. I love to drive.

Stacy: Do you love to drive

Heidi: fast? I do, but I've never [01:06:00] done a race car cuz I actually, I think I'm honestly overconfident in my skillset. Oh, I'm very good driver. It's so good. But that's a great on the motivational, I mean just the impact that could have, like if you could help others see something in themselves.

Heidi: I think that's huge. I

Stacy: love that. I, the race car driver is pretty awesome too. Okay, so what profession would you not like to do?

Heidi: Definitely librarian. I

Stacy: really, I'm.

Heidi: Loud Persian Scorpio,

Stacy: a type

Heidi: like I cannot be quiet for that long.

Stacy: That's amazing. I mean, I'm

Heidi: just can't even imagine it. I can't even meditate.

Heidi: Like it's, it just does not work for me.

Stacy: That's like a whole nother podcast cuz I can't quite, that's, that's a whole nother thing. I agree with you on that. Okay, this one is a little bit reflective. So what do you want people to say about you after you've retired or left the industry?

Heidi: She [01:07:00] genuinely cared.

Heidi: She was inspiring. And she made a real impact, made a real difference. Mm,

Stacy: I love that. That's, yeah, really great. That's probably my three, Heidi. What a joy to spend time with you today, and I'm so grateful for your friendship. I mean, the more time we spend together, the more similarities I see between us.

Stacy: Yeah, and it was fun for me. Like I always say, you know, you have a good podcast when you forget that you're on a podcast, and that for sure happened for me today. And thank you so much for your candor and your authenticity and your time.

Heidi: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I think this is a fantastic series.

Heidi: I've really enjoyed listening to all the others, and I feel honored to now be part of it. So thank you, Stacy. Awesome.

Stacy: Thank you, Heidi. Talk to you later.

Stacy: This podcast is

Heidi: for informational purposes only and should not be relied

Stacy: upon as a basis for investment [01:08:00] decisions. The information is not an offer, solicitation, or recommendation of any of the funds, services, or products, or to adopt any investment strategy. Investment values may fluctuate and past performance is not a guide to future performance.

Stacy: All opinions

Heidi: expressed by guests on the show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their firm. Manager's

Stacy: appearance on the show does not constitute

Heidi: an endorsement by Stacey Haner or Haven Capital Partners.

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