Episode 32: $1.2B Manager of Managers Turned Fintech Founder Lucy Walker of AM Insights on the Power of Data in Distribution | Why Different is Better than Better in Fund Selection
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Fund managers, it’s time to ditch the pitch deck of doom. It’s not helping you differentiate. It’s putting allocators to sleep.
Take it from Lucy Walker, Founder of data platform AM Insights, who spent the bulk of her career as a manager of managers allocating over $1B at specialist firm Sarasin Partners in the UK.
She knows this business inside and out, and Today she’s sharing her wisdom on up-leveling your meeting game so you can land more investments.
Listen in as she and Stacy discuss:
Her Backstory – from corporate allocation to launching her company
Inside the mind of a fund-buyer: what makes a fund manager stand out to her
Why you should dig into data but not use it as a crutch in meetings
The competitor bashing Achilles heel – how to show your differences to the peer group tastefully
About Lucy Walker:
Lucy Walker is founder, chair, board director and advisor in investment management, technology and not-for-profit.
In 2020 she founded AM Insights, a fast and intuitive tool for the fund industry. She is Chair of the Aurora Investment Trust, and Senior Independent Director of Henderson International Income Trust. She is a former head of fund research and fund manager at Sarasin & Partners, advising on over £1.2 billion of assets for charities and high net worth individuals, and before that was at HSBC Global Asset Management.
Lucy has been regularly featured in publications including the FT and The Telegraph, and was shortlisted for Fund Manager of the Year at the Women in Investment awards. She holds BSc Economics and is a CFA charterholder.
TRANSCRIPT
Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.
Lucy Walker: [00:00:00] It's not about being better. It's about being different. It's not about going in and saying what you've got is bad. That's literally always the worst thing to do right with a fund buyer is telling them that they've made a bad decision.
Stacy Havener: Hey, my name is Stacey Havener. I'm obsessed with startups, stories, and sales.
Stacy Havener: Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the toughest boys club, Wall Street. I've raised over 8 billion which has led to 30 billion in. Follow on assets for investment boutiques. You could say against the ads. Yeah, an understatement. I share stories of the people behind the portfolios while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes.
Stacy Havener: It's real talk here. Money, authenticity, growth. Setbacks, sales and marketing are all topics we discuss. Think of this as the capital raising class you wish you had in college mixed with happy hour. Pull up a seat, [00:01:00] grab your notebook, and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn. This is the Billion Dollar Backstory podcast.
Stacy Havener: There's a quote from Lauren Hill. Yes, the rapper from the Fugees. That we can't plan our life, but we can be available for it. I am all for living with intention, but today's guest reminded me that sometimes we need to be available for the twists and turns that show up to us. Often when we least expect them, meet Lucy Walker, founder of data platform AM Insights, who spent the bulk of her career as a manager of managers, allocating over a billion dollars at specialist firm Saracen Partners in the UK.
Stacy Havener: In addition to building her own company now, Lucy also serves on the board of two large investment trusts. She knows this [00:02:00] biz inside and out. She understands the founder's journey in asset management, and she's always supported the boutiques and specialists in this biz. Today, you'll get a chance to hear what matters directly from a talented and successful fund buyer herself.
Stacy Havener: And then once you jot down all that magic, you'll go to school on how to use data to tell a more powerful story and grow your business. Here's to building the business you wished you had and one that the industry needs. Meet my friend and fellow female founder in finance, Lucy. Walker, Lucy, thank you so much for being here.
Stacy Havener: It is a pleasure for me to invite friends of the billion dollar backstory podcast into our conversation today. And can we just like dive right in? Because this is fun for me on many levels, [00:03:00] one I think you're amazing. The company you're building is amazing, but it's fun to be in the company of a fellow female founder in finance.
Stacy Havener: So that's where I want to start. Can you share your backstory with us? Like start wherever you want. You can go back as, as far as childhood, like, did you know you wanted to be in the investment biz and then take us up to now you're actually a founder in the investment biz.
Lucy Walker: Of course, and absolutely delighted to be here, Stacey.
Lucy Walker: Thank you so much. Delighted that LinkedIn brought us together. Mm hmm. What a fun platform. Um, so it's kind of a funny story, I guess, because I never even knew about investment. I never knew about asset management. I was always mathematical. My mom is super mathematical, and I guess that that was something that I was just always good at.
Lucy Walker: And so when I went to uni, I studied economics and, um, you know, that was a lot of fun. I mean, probably more so the course than necessarily the studies, but I enjoyed [00:04:00] it. And then when I was thinking about what to do next, I had friends that were probably a bit more aware of what they were going to be doing.
Lucy Walker: And I kind of just copied them in all honesty. So they were applying to internships and I thought, well, that sounds like a good idea. You know, you're getting whatever 10 weeks of paid work in the summer. Like that sounds great. And so I, yeah, I applied to. HSBC, which was where my friend was applying to and she, um, my friend said, I said, which bit are you applying to?
Lucy Walker: Cause there were like all these different ones like global markets and asset management and all these names that I was totally unfamiliar with. And she was like, Oh, I'm going to go for asset management. And I'm going to say that, um, it's because it's, you know, I really like working with clients. And I thought, okay, cool.
Lucy Walker: I'll, I'll do that. And in all honesty, That is why I'm sitting opposite you today.
Stacy Havener: You've copied your friend. Yeah, genuinely. First of all, you know what's cool about it? Is that so you had two females who were applying to [00:05:00] work in asset management. So I want to stay with this for one second. So you said your mom was mathematical.
Stacy Havener: What was her career? So she was
Lucy Walker: actually a pharmacist. So she kind of used her mathematical skills in a bit more of a scientific manner.
Stacy Havener: Very interesting. And you know, look, this is so true for many of us. Like, we don't have there's no sort of grand design of how we end up where we are. And also, by the way, copying I'm using air quotes is a really great way to find your version, right?
Stacy Havener: There's a book that's basically about Oh, Stealing Like an Artist.
Lucy Walker: Oh, I've heard of it. I haven't read it, but I've heard of it. You, okay,
Stacy Havener: I recommend that for you. We're not even talking books yet, but it's great because when you copy, it starts out that it's, quote, like a steal, but you end up making it yours.
Stacy Havener: And I think that's maybe a good thread to say, okay, so now you work for a very large asset management firm. Kind of take us through [00:06:00] what happens next.
Lucy Walker: So, yeah, I worked for HSBC on the internship. And, um, honestly, I knew nothing. I mean, so I ended up on the internship with somebody who turned out to be a friend of a friend, like we were the two that ended up getting selected.
Lucy Walker: And it was such a coincidence because we, I think we didn't, we'd never met, but we realized afterwards that we knew each other. So it was such a wonderful kind of journey into HSBC and everyone else that I was around, they kind of knew. what they were doing. They, like, they knew what taking profits meant.
Lucy Walker: They knew what bonds were. Like, I might have studied economics, but I didn't know this kind of jargon and this language. So I remember it being an incredibly steep learning curve. You know, I was literally having to just be like, what's going on here? What's going on there? And, um, I ended up joining as a, as a graduate and I did three rotations.
Lucy Walker: So I rotated in product development, which I always say was the most amazing foundation of a kind of graduate rotation, because you learn about the core of the asset management business, right? Like the products, what, why are you launching them? What should you be [00:07:00] shutting and what makes you different to, to the other, the other funds out there?
Lucy Walker: So that was amazing. Then I did institutional sales. So again, really obviously important journey through asset management to understand how the sales aspect works. And then my final one was in multi manager. And so again, that was just what took me into becoming a fund buyer. Something again, I, even in the early part of my time at HSBC, I never knew that this area existed.
Lucy Walker: I knew obviously about investment, but I never knew about multi manager. And so that was. Awesome. And I worked under some incredible people. Uh, they would tell me to say I worked alongside them rather than under, but they were absolutely fantastic and really gave me amazing opportunities to come along to, to manager meetings.
Lucy Walker: And I met some fascinating managers and got to write up meeting notes. And that was really just the beginning of this passion for meeting managers. Like it felt like such a joy and a privilege to be able to meet these people who were so focused on an area. And so. Absolutely passionate and [00:08:00] interesting.
Lucy Walker: And yeah, it was always just a joy to, you know, some obviously more than others, but it was always such a, yeah, such a joy to, um, to be able to just turn up to meetings and ask whatever, you know, whenever you wanted.
Stacy Havener: Yes, I love that. And I agree with that. That was also the same for me. Like I would sit in these meetings with these fund managers and it was so, it was so different and so interesting and exciting and their stories were amazing.
Stacy Havener: And so I very much relate. to what that feels like in those meetings. And so now, so you do that for a number of years and you're allocating, you know, billion plus dollars to other managers. And then you decide to just take a hard left into crazy town and become an entrepreneur. And I say that with all the love, because I'm there too.
Stacy Havener: So talk about that a little bit.
Lucy Walker: So I'm just going to add like a little bit in between, which was actually, um, when I joined a company called Saracen and Partners, where I actually ended up spending the majority of my kind of corporate career. And there I joined, I joined as a fund buyer as a third, sorry, [00:09:00] rather as a third party fund analyst.
Lucy Walker: But quite quickly, I was, um, lucky to be given some mandates to run. Uh, so I was running white labeled multi-asset funds for, uh, for some I FFAs. Then we launched our own funder funds and then we also ran, launched and ran model portfolios. And then I led the team. Mm-Hmm, . So at Sarasin I was kind of juggling quite a few different things.
Lucy Walker: Multi-asset funds, model portfolios, and then running the, the research team for the wider business. basically selecting funds for private clients for charities. And so that was kind of where I did spend the bulk of my career. So in 2019, so what's that? Yeah, quite a few years ago now, I was fortunate enough to be asked to join the board of an investment trust.
Lucy Walker: And, um, that investment trust is called Aurora, which is a UK value investment trust. And it really was a surprise to be asked to interview because I kind of always thought that I would be doing, or I could consider that role in my future, but I never thought that it would be [00:10:00] something that I could be doing, you know, now.
Lucy Walker: And then I was offered to, to join it. And so I was able to do that alongside my, my role at Sarathin. And then the following year, in 2020, I was asked to interview for a role with Henderson. So they've got an investment trust called International Income, as it's known, HINT. And that trust, again, in all honesty, I went for that thinking that would just be a really good experience.
Lucy Walker: I never thought in a million years that I would get it. Obviously, Henderson's a much bigger brand. It's the part of Janice Henderson, or is Janice Henderson. And it was a much bigger trust. It was at least twice the size of Aurora. So, but to my surprise, they offered me the position, which was just an amazing thing.
Lucy Walker: I was absolutely, you know, it felt great, but it also then led me to make a decision to your point about the kind of hard left. So I had a decision to either, you know, to basically continue down the corporate track or take the Henderson role and do something different. And I [00:11:00] decided to do something different.
Lucy Walker: And I think kind of going back to your earlier comment about, you know, childhood and stuff. So my, I mentioned my mom, who's, you know, mathematical, my dad is an entrepreneur. And I think that that is kind of been, you know, when I was a kid, I used to like lick stamps and put like right at right addresses on.
Lucy Walker: And like, you know, I was like doing things that I got paid five P a stamp for or whatever it might be, you know, because. That was his thing. You know, he was, he was running his own business. And I think that's probably been something that I have witnessed and I have absorbed. And then at the same time, my husband had gone freelance around the same time, maybe slightly earlier.
Lucy Walker: And I think that, yeah, with the kind of combination of all of these factors, cause I think honestly, looking back, it's kind of a crazy thing, right? It's a crazy thing that I left a career that I'd been in for 15 years. Which, you know, I loved and I got so much out of, but I think because of, like I say, all these little things like the investment trust positions kind of gave me that stability of income, you know, maybe like my upbringing with my [00:12:00] dad and kind of having that and then my husband being so amazingly supportive with such a, you know, a huge step and such a huge change.
Lucy Walker: And yeah, it's been an absolute journey. So that was just over three years ago that I left. And yeah, oh my God, it's been a journey.
Stacy Havener: Oh my gosh. So it's fascinating to me because entrepreneurship is a little bit contagious, isn't it? I think so. I think it's, it's sort of in your DNA at some level, but then when you're around other entrepreneurs, if you have that spark inside you, gosh, they just fuel that fire because you see them building.
Stacy Havener: And I love the story about your dad. It's like you do it. It's the craziest adventure. And it's a roller coaster that could be before 9 a. m. And yet it's still so fulfilling in a different way than having a career track.
Stacy Havener: So let's talk a little bit about [00:13:00] what you decided to build, because I think it, you know, it really does, as is always the case, in my opinion, the backstory really informs your role as a founder of this new business. So talk to us about AM Insights.
Lucy Walker: Yeah, of course. So AM Insights is a fund data platform. It is the tool that I wish I had when I was a fund buyer.
Lucy Walker: So I used to, as I say, I was Running a research team, I was running multi asset funds, and I was running multi, uh, MPS, Model Portfolios. By anyone's standards, that is a lot of different responsibilities. So, that role, and I am not alone, I have many, many peers who I know feel exactly the same. It was a case of how many plates am I spinning and which one is going to drop, right?
Lucy Walker: I knew a plate was going to drop. It was, it was an inevitability, but which plate is it going to be? Is it going to be a big plate or is it going to be a small plate? And you just have to hope it's going to be a small plate and you do everything that you can. Of course you [00:14:00] do to make sure that it's not a big plate, but sometimes.
Lucy Walker: things happen. And so what I really wanted to do was, or rather what I wanted, because this was born out of niggles, right? It was born out of my own niggles of like, ah, if only, if only I had something that did this, or if only I had something that did that. And the kind of, if something. Was I wanted a tool that was built around the list of funds that matters to me or to the user, right?
Lucy Walker: The list of funds that you actually care about, because in am insights, there are 70, 000 share classes, right? There's an inordinate amount of things that you could look at, but you're never going to look at even a fraction of that. You're going to look at a tiny, tiny proportion. Those are the funds that you should focus your energy on, not all the rest.
Lucy Walker: So I wanted a platform that was built around that and not that. I wanted it to be set up to build, to set up to send automated alerts. So, in terms of spinning plates, there were things I knew that were changing, and I would as [00:15:00] much as possible be keeping track of those. But when you're looking at, you know, 80 funds, you're running funds, et cetera, et cetera, you are clearly going to have to be switching your focus, right?
Lucy Walker: And so I felt that it was very, very It was needed to have a platform that gave me notifications when things were changing. Not that I might necessarily want to respond to, but that I should at least be given the knowledge of and then consider whether it needs response. So first of all, is it being built around the list of funds you care about?
Lucy Walker: Second is that it's built to set up alerts on an automatic basis. And thirdly, I wanted it to be available on your phone because I was going to see clients or managers or going to conferences and I was having to like call back to my colleagues and ask them to check stuff for me. You know, what a strange thing to have to do in at that time, 2020.
Lucy Walker: So that was kind of the dream was to, I suppose, solve for those things. And yeah, I guess. What we've [00:16:00] done is, is that and actually way, way more, which, you know, I can, happy to kind of delve into it or not.
Stacy Havener: So I love it. And I, I think when we were prepping, I was, I guess every industry is crowded, but certainly, you know, this is a very crowded space.
Stacy Havener: I mean, you said 70, 000 shares. So on the investment side, super crowded on the wealth side, super crowded and really. On the data side, also kind of super crowded, like there are a lot of people and businesses, you know, with data that you can use. And I love the idea that you built something that you wish you had, you know.
Stacy Havener: Being on the side that we're on, sort of the sell side, one of the things that I have always found incredibly valuable, and we tell this to our clients often, is to put yourself in the shoes of the buyer. Put yourself in the shoes of the client or prospect that you're talking to. [00:17:00] And to do that, you need to, you know, well, a, you need to know who that is that you're talking to.
Stacy Havener: And B, you need a tool that can help you get that intelligence. So I think the other thing that I like is you're sort of helping both. kind of sides of the table to communicate in the same language using tools that solve actual problems because data is, in my mind, like data should talk back to you. You need sassy data, because if the data just sits there, And waits for you to do something.
Stacy Havener: It's actually not that helpful. Like what you said, like, no data. I need you to talk to me. Tell me what I should know. You're the, you have the keys, you know? So I love that. And can you talk a little bit about those two sides? Because you've been kind of on both, right? You were sort of a bridge to both. So how can fund managers, which is mostly who listens to this?
Stacy Havener: podcast, you know, use data to help them. [00:18:00]
Lucy Walker: Yeah, massively. So I think, um, when you said getting your clients to think in the shoes of fund buyers, I think that's exactly how asset managers use AM insights. So fund buyers obviously use the tool to research new names, monitor existing names, obviously get alerted about things changing.
Lucy Walker: So that's kind of pretty clear and straightforward. If you're on the distribution side or the asset management side. You generally have limited access to data or, let's say, useful data. You probably have a lot of data, but question mark over its use. You probably, you might, depending on your size, have some kind of competitor analysis resource internally, who is probably deeply overstretched, who is really, really struggling to provide everything that's needed.
Lucy Walker: they're being asked of. And so instead of working on the really deep analysis, that is the thing where they can add the most value because that might get a client over the line at a later stage. They're kind of swamped with like much lower level [00:19:00] inquiries from their colleagues, either in, you know, product or in sales who are just trying to get the basics.
Lucy Walker: Like how do we look versus this competitor? How's our performance been here? So AM Insights, because it's the same platform for fund buyers and for fund distribution teams, it literally is exactly what you described about being in their shoes. There's no difference. So they can create a basket of their peers in a bucket.
Lucy Walker: And then track that. So how are they performing? How do they look on a risk basis? Actually, let's dig below the bonnet. You know, what does it look like on a portfolio basis? How does the cap compare? How does sectors compare? Where are the differences? Cause I always say, you know, people love to bash active management.
Lucy Walker: I did a podcast the other day and they were like, is active management dead? No, it's definitely not dead. There are so many funds out there. In fact, there are so many good funds out there. It's not about, Oh, my funds better than yours. It's about what makes our fund different and how do we find the right people who are looking for that [00:20:00] difference so that it can work together?
Lucy Walker: So I think that's really the core of what I am insights is doing for distribution teams. It's giving them the opportunity to get the data that they need. It's giving them the opportunity to track their funds versus peers and importantly, understand what makes them different. And then they're getting automated alerts on their funds and on their competitor funds.
Lucy Walker: So they have the context to be able to walk in and add value with fund buyers who themselves are overstretched. You know, you probably saw the data out of PwC recently saying that a sixth of asset and wealth managers are expected to have gone by 2027. You know, we're at a pivotal moment in time. when asset and wealth managers have already seen tons of consolidation, and we're going to see even more.
Lucy Walker: And it's a really tough time to get time with fund buyers. So we have to have distribution teams who are absolutely, you know, as expert as they can be. It's not about making them be fund buyers, but it's about giving them the platform to be able to walk in [00:21:00] with confidence and say, this is what makes us different.
Stacy Havener: Yes. Gosh, I love that. Yes. I mean, I love that so much. It's different. It's better than better for sure. That's it. Different. It's better than better as a fund buyer. And you know this, like you want, you don't want same, but better. You're like, how can I bring something in to compliment what I already have?
Stacy Havener: And that is something that fund managers just, they skip. It's like, no, no, I have to beat everyone to the death. This is a zero sum game. If I'm going to win, everyone else must lose. I don't even care if they're in my asset class. I don't care what asset class they're in. Everyone else must lose in order for me to win.
Stacy Havener: And it's so wrong. It's so wrong. And it's not how the fund buyer is thinking. And so I love everything you said there. And what I find interesting, too, is so for us, like with an investment boutique, let's say this type of data and intelligence prior [00:22:00] to groups like you, this was really the purview of the biggest of the bigs, right?
Stacy Havener: They had the budget to get this data and it was super expensive. And then they had the budget to hire the CFA to do all the work that you described is Maybe a team of people that are doing this. And so you have the investment boutique. So we're over here like can't afford it. Don't have the staff. And so like, just skip it.
Stacy Havener: I'm just going to go with a performance chart and hope I performance Derby beat everyone. And this is such an overused word, especially in our industry, but the democratization of that data. And sort of making it accessible to more people really, in my opinion, gives investment boutiques a chance to tell their story, leaning into what makes them unique and special and different.
Stacy Havener: And so I just wonder, like, to me, this is an incredible tool for investment boutiques. And I think they think it's really not for them. They're not big enough. It's not important. So I wonder how you respond to [00:23:00] that.
Lucy Walker: Well, I mean, first and foremost, I would say that I was probably known as a fun buyer for being a massive supporter of boutiques.
Lucy Walker: So I seeded quite a few funds from very, very low levels, which went on some, in some cases to be billions of pounds. And that was something that I did because I knew to your earlier point, like different is what's interesting, right? If we're going to just hold a load of global asset manager X, Y, Z, um, you know, it might be a great fund.
Lucy Walker: But it might not be. And we know that they're across a lot of different things. They're probably going to grow it really big. The beauty of investment boutiques is we know that they are fully focused on the thing that they're doing. And we know that they're going to protect performance at all costs, because that is what they live and breathe by.
Lucy Walker: And so the first thing I wanted to say is just how much I personally have an affinity with investment boutiques. So absolutely love it. And then, yeah, I mean, oh my gosh, of course, like the, the reality that this data is [00:24:00] not in the hands of these companies in order to be able to really eke out, you know, we can always say what makes you different by knowing what you stand for, right?
Lucy Walker: You know, we are employee owned, we are, you know, a 20 stock portfolio, we are whatever it might be like all these things, you know, they're great. And often they are really important. And I'm sure they're the kinds of things that you really work with, with these kinds of companies on to eke out. But I think that There is also the angle of there is a whole world out there and actually we need to also know what makes us different.
Lucy Walker: And quite often it can be really stark things. When I go in to speak to asset managers, sometimes you show a fund comparison, you know, one fund versus another. And they're like, Oh my gosh, I never knew that we had twice the exposure of healthcare than like anyone else or, you know, and kind of these things.
Lucy Walker: It's not like they're necessarily going to be the thing, but these start to build a picture, right? These little nuggets of data points start to build a picture where that narrative can start to be really, really clear in, in the asset [00:25:00] manager's mind. And I think that's what makes the difference. So yeah, fully, fully agree
Stacy Havener: with your comments.
Stacy Havener: Yeah. And it's a great dovetail to something I wanted to talk about, which is qualitative and narrative. Especially given that I think the perception anytime you say data, it's like, oh, this is a quant story. It's not even story. This is just quant. This is data. This is charts. And it is. However, I want to pull forward that thread that you started, which is, it is part of a narrative.
Stacy Havener: It is part of a narrative and so if you qualitatively say these are the things that make me different and special and unique, the next step is to be able to show that, prove that, not like, you're not guaranteeing performance, it's nothing like that, it's having the data to back up what you're saying qualitatively.
Stacy Havener: And to me, the marriage of those two things, qualitative and quantitative, you know, words and numbers, that's where the magic is. Because to your point, fund buyers are pulled in a [00:26:00] lot of directions. This is work they'd love to do. And you know what happens when you show up with this type of information for them?
Stacy Havener: They feel grateful. They're like, thank you. You just made my job easier. I could have done the work, but the reality is I don't have time. And so how do the qualitative and quantitative play together? And is that kind of the use case that you're seeing that this is supporting the broader narrative of differentiators?
Lucy Walker: 100%. I mean, you know, we all know that it's not just science, right? It's art and science. And, you know, sometimes it feels a bit more art and sometimes it feels a bit more science, but we know that it kind of oscillates around that balancing point. And I believe strongly that you've got two kind of competing things.
Lucy Walker: You've got, you know, the, the more qualitative stuff, like we were saying, you know, the employee owned and all that stuff. And the kind of backstory is you will know, but then there's also the differentiators and often that's actually driven by the [00:27:00] quant and then it builds the narrative. But then, as you say, it can then be backed up by the data.
Lucy Walker: A question I used to love asking managers was to your point on this whole podcast, it's like, What got you to where you are? Mm-Hmm. , who did you learn from? What book really influenced you? Like what were the kinds of things that led you to this point where you can now sit here across from me running a portfolio and tell me that you have this process, you know, oh, oh, I filter out this, or I have a process where I bucket it in this way.
Lucy Walker: Like why? Yeah. Like where did that come from? And, and so I suppose that what fund buyers are always looking for. It's that same combination, right? The combination of the quant to be able to evidence it, but also the qualitative to be able to, as you say, I love that, like a marriage of the two is absolutely bang on.
Lucy Walker: Yeah. So yeah, completely agree.
Stacy Havener: Yeah. And it's, it's great because no matter which one leads, the other one needs to come into it. Like as you were talking, I was thinking, yeah, if you see a stat. Then you want to say, okay, well, I want to know the why behind this data. Why [00:28:00] is this happening? Why aren't you in this sector?
Stacy Havener: Or why are you consistently overweight this sector? Like the data is a clue that there's something persistent, qualitatively or philosophically or from a process perspective that's worth digging into. And then the flip side is if someone says something to you, I do have this unique process or I, I do typically wait financials because it's a skill set of ours to, to weed through these very opaque balance sheets.
Stacy Havener: Then you want to see that like, well, does that actually show up in the data? Like, are they walking the walk or are they just telling me something that they think I want to hear? So I love that. I think it's, it's both. And there's another part of the data that I'm super interested in. I actually don't know if this is something that AM Insights.
Stacy Havener: does. So how does fund flows play into this whole thing? Because, you know, what we're talking about right now is very micro, like what's happening with a set of funds and a peer group or even a [00:29:00] portfolio of holdings. But how do you think about the macro and just headwinds and tailwinds and fund flows?
Stacy Havener: Like, is that something that am insights can help with? So
Lucy Walker: it's definitely important. The way that we deal with fund flows is we have the kind of automated alerts. So we basically alert users when there are big moves in, in assets in either your own funds or your competitor funds. And so I was looking with a client a couple of days ago and one of their competitors had lost 30 percent of their assets.
Lucy Walker: And so that was kind of like an immediate, Oh my gosh, you know, I did not, I did not know that that had happened. And you know, whilst obviously I would not advocate them suddenly calling up all of the clients and saying, you know, I can see that such and such, but you know, but does it present an opportunity the next time there's an engagement there to be able to just have a kind of like a light and gentle conversation about what's going on there?
Lucy Walker: Because in all honesty, it is possible that the fund buyers do not know. That's right. So it's [00:30:00] a really. They might be using AIM Insights and they might have the notification, but if they don't, there's a high chance that they will not be aware. And so it's really, it's a, and it's a tricky balance, right?
Lucy Walker: You definitely need to be careful not to be appeared to be ambulance chasing and kind of be, um, yes, but at the same time, there is a degree to which fund buyers will be grateful to be. For these things to be flagged. So I guess that's one thing I wanted to mention. The other thing is that I think this is really important for boutiques.
Lucy Walker: Um, is that on am insights, but in general, the power of knowing who is invested, not just in your funds, but in your competitor funds. So, so one of the features that we added, um, only a couple of months ago, um, was this concept called investor And so with the investors tab, you can do two things. You can click into funder funds or multi asset funds, and you can see what they hold.
Lucy Walker: And so you can start to get a picture of, look, do these guys hold anything that's more boutique y, or are they all just, [00:31:00] you know, all asset managers of a large type, and there's basically no point in trying to get in there. Or do they hold some? So that's one avenue. Um, which has been really valuable for some of our clients.
Lucy Walker: The other avenue is that instead of going to a client, you go to another boutique, who has maybe a bit further along the journey than you, and you see who is invested in them. And you can start to build a picture. Of the kinds of companies or the kinds of individuals that are prepared to basically be a bit different, right?
Lucy Walker: Because we all know it's much easier to buy the fund that is not going to get them fired. It's much harder to buy a fund that is different and, you know, maybe has some risk attached to it because of it. And there are, I would say, as you said, kind of like entrepreneurs are a particular type. I would say boutique investors are kind of a particular type as well.
Lucy Walker: And I think if you can kind of get like a little window into who some of those individuals are, I think it can be really, really powerful because we all know to your earlier point about resources, you know, the boutiques are often the ones that don't have [00:32:00] the resources to be able to be calling hundreds of people and finding the few that are going to move the needle.
Lucy Walker: So yeah, that, that's something that I think would, it doesn't, you know, it's not exactly flows, but I think it links to the point that you were making.
Stacy Havener: Yes, that's so great. That's so great. And again, this is data that talks back to you. I'm all about this like data with SAS because it has to tell you something.
Stacy Havener: It can't just sit there on the page and wait for someone to come by and interpret it. Like, so I love the alerts. I love everything you're building. That is super powerful. You know, I Thank you for, I could just, like, I have to be careful because I could totally geek out and be like, tell me more about what AM Insights can do.
Stacy Havener: So if you want to do that, call Lucy after because I probably will be too. So I want to maybe take off the data hat for a second and go back. And kind of transport yourself back to the Saracen days, the fund buyer days. And you mentioned a little bit of this, like questions that [00:33:00] you liked asking managers and how much you enjoyed those meetings.
Stacy Havener: And one of the things, especially with boutiques that I've seen, and we're really trying to help managers work through is that. The founders of these firms, especially if they worked at a big shop before they started their boutique, they think there's like a certain way they have to show up, a certain uniform they need to wear to the meeting, a certain vernacular they need to use and jargon and charts and all these things.
Stacy Havener: And so like you meet with them and you're like, gosh, I'm just meeting your representative. Like you've sent in your representative who you think a fund manager should be. And I understand why they do it. I just, since, it's one thing when I say it because I'm on, sort of, I'm on their side. But I just wonder from your perspective, when you met with managers, how did the qualitative play into it?
Stacy Havener: And how did authenticity, did it register for you if someone was being authentic? Yeah, [00:34:00] talk
Lucy Walker: about that. Oh my gosh, so, so much. Where to begin? So, there's so much to say on this. So I've done a lot of LinkedIn posts kind of jibing at the, like the way not to do it. And they're kind of the means that I might use are like a skeleton basically waiting for the asset manager to finish talking about, you know, their kind of offices and all that stuff.
Lucy Walker: And obviously that's not specifically relevant to boutiques and equally, you know, collective years of experience. Um, I feel like there have been some others, but kind of this, this idea of just like you say, like ticking the box of the things that we need to say, like throw all that stuff out the window.
Lucy Walker: Like. Don't talk about any of that. Don't even open the slide deck, right? Like the slide deck, you know, you talked earlier about, you know, you talked earlier about the presentation. Uh, oh, sorry. You talked about, um, about the quant, like backing up the qualitative. That's how slide decks should be used. They should be used.
Lucy Walker: To evidence a point they should not be used in and I know it's hard. I know not all managers feel confident to just [00:35:00] like roll through a meeting and like they kind of some of them want some structure and I get that And if you're one of those people what I would say is have a super super limited slide deck like max 10 Like no more than 10 slides and just talk as much as you can about each of the slides But ideally Don't have them even out unless you really need to evidence a point.
Lucy Walker: And the reason why is that the minute that you open the slide deck is the minute that the fun by it is kind of slightly turned off because they kind of just think like, okay, we're just going to go through the pack, you know, like it's, it's just one of those meetings. Whereas if you can stand out, if you can be a manager that goes, Hey, look.
Lucy Walker: I wanted to just come in and talk to you about how, you know, we think about things or how, you know, or like, would, or would it be helpful to just like tell you a bit about my backstory, you know, talking about in your language. That's the thing that I cared about. And I would try as much as possible to like stop a presentation in its tracks.
Lucy Walker: If it was kind of going down the, I used to call it like the slide deck of doom, you know, like, or even like the slide deck of death. [00:36:00] Like basically if you knew it was going down that direction, like quickly, like, like stop it. And I really, really believe that the thing that makes the meeting interesting for both parties But also is obviously what makes it memorable for the fund buyer is the differentiators, right?
Lucy Walker: So yeah, the authentic part is like, I don't, I don't really care actually about, I mean, I don't know if this might be different on this basis, but even like process, right? Like process comes later. Like I was saying earlier, it's great that you've got buckets. It's great that you filter out this, but like the why is so much more important.
Lucy Walker: And when people talk about philosophy, I think it's like, you know, oh, I'm a value investor or. You know, I like cashflow, high cashflow yield stocks. That's what I look, you know, and it like fails to kind of give the color that I think is needed to really differentiate managers. So yeah, I would massively, massively encourage any of your listeners to focus on that stuff.
Lucy Walker: And I know that's like, I bet you that's exactly the kind of work that you were doing with them, which is [00:37:00] brilliant because that is just so important to stand out. Otherwise you just, you're one of the others and then it's basically a losing battle.
Stacy Havener: It's thank you. I mean, it's like I. Gave you like a, an, a little elbow nudge before the podcast to be like, Hey, if you could, this would be great.
Stacy Havener: But so I, that's what makes it even better is it's so authentic. No,
Lucy Walker: I tru I truly
Stacy Havener: believe it. I know it's so authentic and I really want everyone to just pause. Like if I could play some, like, you know, like when calm all of a sudden shows up and it's like, just think for a second. Like, that's this moment right here.
Stacy Havener: Like, just think for a second about what Lucy has said, because. In my mind, two things happen. If you really believe that message that you've just delivered so eloquently, if you really let that sink in, you know what happens? The meeting is more fun. For everyone. For sure. And like, it's so freeing. As just, as a fund manager, sure, but as a human, for somebody to say, I don't need the [00:38:00] presentation.
Stacy Havener: Let's just have a conversation. And then all this fear that people have about like, I need to prepare, I need to memorize, I need to do all of these things, the reality is you don't, you're an expert at what you do, you do not need to memorize anything, the only reason you memorize is because you think you need to say it a certain way, the insights and the thoughts and all of the things are already inside you when you're trying to memorize or you're trying to read a slide deck is because you think you need to say it a certain way and you don't, yeah.
Stacy Havener: So I just love that. It's like the most important thing a boutique can do. And the flip side, like I have a client who's so fabulous and they're doing, they're really taking everything we're saying to heart, even though it's terrifying for them. You know, they worked for a very big shop. So they go into a meeting and sometimes they'll call before the meeting and be like, tell me again, like, don't let me do what my tendency is.
Stacy Havener: And then they'll come out of the And they'll say, [00:39:00] is it really this simple? Like, that meeting went amazing, and it was fun, and I didn't, like, I didn't have to memorize. I didn't use my slide deck. Is it really this simple? And my answer is always, yes, yes, because people do business with people and I just love everything you said, like you're, you're giving us so much confidence that the data and the stories, the words and the numbers can live together simultaneously.
Stacy Havener: And I love the phrase that you have the evidence. You know, evidencing each other. That's so good. Like, God, it's just awesome. I'm going to just throw my own mic. I always have one.
Stacy Havener: What other advice do you have for fund managers, Lucy? I know that's such like a broad, open ended question. You've given us so much already, but is there anything else that looking back, you're like, gosh, if I could just tell every fund manager this, what would that be?
Lucy Walker: Never bash the competition. [00:40:00] Yeah. It's the case that a tool like AM insights gives you.
Lucy Walker: information on the competition. But to my earlier point about, it's not about being better, it's about being different. It's not about going in and saying what you've got is bad. That's literally always the worst thing to do, right? With a fund buyer is telling them that they've got a bad, they've made a bad decision.
Lucy Walker: Even if it was a bad decision, it may have been the right decision at the time. You know, like good decisions don't necessarily have good outcomes. Like the, it's hindsight that kind of the evidence is that. So that would be a really big one. And so, yeah, even if you've got the data on your competition, it's not about, I would never name specific competitors unless the client.
Lucy Walker: mentions them to you. So you can only have it. So even if you've got all this wonderful context from a tool like AM insights, it's about using it in a smart way, in a subtle way to, to show your differences to the peer group, really holding back from, [00:41:00] yeah, particularly any of those things. That would be probably, that's the, that's the first thing that came to mind.
Lucy Walker: Yeah.
Stacy Havener: I love that. Fabulous advice. And I, I have a friend, Dr. Daniel Crosby. I don't know if you know him. He's here in the States. He's a behavioral scientist. And we did a little like mini series podcast so that I could say like, here's all the things I see in the wild. Tell me if like behavioral economics, like, is at play here in human behavior as a plan.
Stacy Havener: It always is. But what's interesting is what you just said. If you go in and bash the competition, you're talking to a person who at some point in time thought that that fund, that manager, was a good buy. And they bought into that. And so in a weird way, you think as the new co that you're just only bashing that fund.
Stacy Havener: But in reality, you're actually bashing that fund buyer who made the decision. And like, you don't realize you're doing it. It's not intentional, but that's how it feels to the person who's sitting there receiving it. [00:42:00] I think that's super
Lucy Walker: important. There's one other thing, yes, 100%. The other thing I would add is I think when people talk about specific competition, even if it is not something that the client owns, I think it can introduce a sense of self doubt on the side of the boutique because they feel the need.
Lucy Walker: To, to talk about the competition when actually it's the kind of the, their own stuff that matters the most. Right? It's, it, you need to know the context so that you can talk about your differentiators. But the second that you start referencing competition, I think that it, and as I say, unless the client asks it, that's different.
Lucy Walker: Of course. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that, so I just wanted to add, 'cause I think there's two elements. You are the one you mentioned a hundred percent, but I think there is, even, even if the client doesn't own it. I think there is still a reason not to mention a specific competitors unless asked. Fabulous
Stacy Havener: point.
Stacy Havener: So then I have to ask you this too. Let's see. The question is, so you're sitting there as a, as an allocator, you've got this lineup of funds. [00:43:00] What makes you add a manager to the lineup? And I will share that. I think most fund managers think it's because you're firing. manager A and are looking to replace them with a new manager.
Stacy Havener: And my gut says that that is not often, that that's not often the case as much as fund managers think it is. So like, when you add someone to the lineup, it's not just because you're kicking somebody else out.
Lucy Walker: No, I mean, I think I can speak for many fund buyers, you know, I don't think there are many fund buyers out there who are not really quite passionate about what it is that they're doing, you know, the, like I said at the beginning, kind of that ability to meet these people that are so focused and all this stuff.
Lucy Walker: And I think that that passion. kind of is always there, right? And if you see something super interesting, that's going to be additive, then it doesn't necessarily mean that you need to, as you say, kick [00:44:00] something out. You potentially might have to change things, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you don't need to kick something out.
Lucy Walker: Having said that. You know, obviously there are regions where it's easier to add new managers, like the U. S., just by virtue of it being a large part of the index, is an easy place to, for, for fund buyers to generally add managers more easily. Like, you know, Japan or the U. K. is trickier because obviously there's a smaller kind of global allocation, assuming obviously that managers are following broadly the benchmark, which, you know, let's hope that they're not.
Lucy Walker: Boutiques, of course, aren't, but fund buyers often are kind of allocating broadly to that. So that would be the first point or the first couple of points. And then I think, I think the other point is that what needs to happen is that interest needs to be peaked, right? So I can meet, you know, I met endless fund managers, salespeople, you know, there were moments when, you know, your brain goes, Oh, that's interesting.
Lucy Walker: I want to hear more about that. And it's. There's that void of, you know, you then get [00:45:00] sent a follow up. Was your interest peaked enough to open the follow up? And most of the time it wasn't because my interest wasn't sufficiently peaked. So that moment, that opportunity that you have to secure a meeting is absolutely key because so often they can go into the void.
Lucy Walker: So I know this is going slightly off topic, but I just, it kind of, it was like a thread from what you were saying. So, so I think that what's important is not, does the allocator need to sell something else or not? It's like, can you peak that interest? Have you peaked it enough? And it's not like, it shouldn't be a desperate thing, right?
Lucy Walker: I mean, of course I know I'm an entrepreneur. Like I know that you do want business, right? You do want things to, um, you know, you do want people to buy, but at the same time. You do something amazing. Like I'm at a point now where I know that am insights is a really great platform. And if somebody decides not to go with it, that's like, that's cool because actually there's other tools out there that might be more appropriate for them.
Lucy Walker: But I know that I've got a really great platform that [00:46:00] I feel super confident in. And if boutiques have that same confidence in what they're doing, then they can walk into meetings, peak interest, and really kind of nail that buyer. If it's right, if it's wrong, like move on, right? Don't try and like, yeah, there's a horrible phrase about a horse, which I'm not going to use actually.
Lucy Walker: I'd love to think of a better phrase that doesn't involve that, but like basically the phrase of like, it's not working, just move on. Like there are so many buyers out there. And so it's all about that kind of. Peaking of interest. If it's not sufficiently peaked, move on. And if it is, then amazing. And kind of, yeah, crack on with that.
Lucy Walker: That is
Stacy Havener: such great advice. I love that you pulled on the thread, as I like to say, because that was incredibly additive. And I think that was sort of another message that I want. Fund managers to hear from you because you've been in those shoes. It's like this is not, you don't have to go into the meeting thinking that you need to help this person kick out one of your peers in order for you to get in.
Stacy Havener: If you use the Lucy Walker mantra of [00:47:00] peaking interest, then the allocator may find a way to slot you into the lineup alongside the things they're already using. Like they can make room for difference. It's not that like you have to kick something out to get into the portfolio because, of course, you as a fund buyer, you know, you have inflows.
Stacy Havener: So you have money coming into portfolios. So you have new capital to deploy. So you may decide, hey, instead of just investing You know, doubling down on the strategies I have, let me add in some new ideas and diversify or just add interesting elements to the portfolio. So thank you for sharing
Lucy Walker: that. I was just going to just make one quick comment, which is just that I think that's where it comes back to.
Lucy Walker: trying to have some insight on on who the kinds of buyers are that do that, right? Because I think that you do have some allocators who probably are more kind of like, I have my allocation, I review my Japanese exposure once a year, you know, and then that's, that's trickier unless So I just think, [00:48:00] again, it's kind of trying to find the ones that are a bit more flexible, like I was mentioning earlier.
Lucy Walker: So I thought I'd just, yeah. Yes. Add
Stacy Havener: that nuance. So good. And, and I don't think fund managers even realize you can get that information, which I guess one more question on AM Insight. So I was trying so hard not to just like hammer you with questions about the, about, um, so is it just, For non U. S.
Stacy Havener: strategies or are U. S. strategies in there
Lucy Walker: as well? At the moment, it's just non U. S. Okay. The direction of travel will be, will be U. S. But yeah, at the moment, just non U.
Stacy Havener: S. Okay, great. Okay, so anyone who wants to get on the wait list for the U. S. data, I'm raising my hand.
Lucy Walker: Yeah, I mean, but genuinely, yeah, I mean, obviously we're, we're kind of led by demand.
Lucy Walker: So if we, yeah, if we have, you know, lots of interest from the U. S., then that obviously, you know, that can be, uh, Prioritize. So yeah, more than happy to keep you posted on that
Stacy Havener: front. That's great. Okay. Awesome. Okay. So now I want you to put your entrepreneur hat on for one more second. Then we're going to switch to some [00:49:00] fun questions.
Stacy Havener: So as an entrepreneur thinking about the journey so far. So you're about three years in this. The three year point is really tough when you know this for boutiques to like, if it hasn't clicked in in three years, people start saying like, Um, it's not gonna work. I might throw in the towel. Like, I have some friends who are going through this right now.
Stacy Havener: How is it feeling as an entrepreneur and what advice do you have to other entrepreneurs on the journey?
Lucy Walker: Um, I mean, it's a journey.
Stacy Havener: Yeah, like this, with lots of peaks and valleys, corkscrews, all the things.
Lucy Walker: Yeah. So I think, well, from my, just speaking from my own experience, I think I, I massively have probably underestimated complexity at every turn, which has been frustrating and, um, made things slower than I would have wanted.
Lucy Walker: Um, but I think we're kind of past that now, which is awesome. And it, you know, I guess it feels like, it's one of those things, like, you know, when you have a [00:50:00] kid and you kind of like, they're a week old and then they're two weeks old, then they're six weeks old, and you kind of look back and you're like, oh my god.
Lucy Walker: God, was that like that with, did I, did I have to deal with that? And it kind of, I feel like it's a little bit like that with the business. Right. It's kind of, I look back, I'm like, Oh my God, did I used to work till like that hour of the night? You know? And I did, and don't get me wrong. Like I still work quite a bit, but yeah, but I definitely feel like three years in.
Lucy Walker: Slightly more than three years in, yeah, it feels like things have kind of set and, um, you know, we've got some big clients and yeah, it's really just keeping the faith, I think, and knowing that if you have the belief, and if you've got some early supporters, and you know, things are heading in the right direction, I think you've really got to celebrate the small wins.
Lucy Walker: and really live those and let those kind of power you on to the next win, because I think, you know, the J curve thing is so true. And you have just highlighted like how many people probably give up like here, just as they're about to be there, you know? [00:51:00] And it's hard because it's, you know, it's such a difficult journey and it really is.
Lucy Walker: I've experienced kind you probably have friends and family that think you're a bit mad because you're working a lot. You know, you probably invested quite a bit at the beginning. It can feel like, am I mad? Like, am I doing the right thing here? And honestly, like my husband has been an amazing supporter, like having him keeping us going, like knowing that we are, we're in this together and his belief has been, you know, hugely important on that journey.
Lucy Walker: So I think, yeah, kind of celebrating the wins, knowing that kind of, it can be. The point of giving up is probably the biggest opportunity. And then I think as well, just having people around you that support you and that really believe in what you're doing, I think is absolutely key. If you're having to kind of, if you're having to explain yourself when it's already hard, that's so exhausting and it can be really, really draining and actually so draining that it can contribute to failure rather than to success.
Lucy Walker: So I think it's, it's absolutely key
Stacy Havener: on that front. Fabulous advice [00:52:00] and it goes back to our comment at the beginning that, you know, entrepreneurship entrepreneurs. We're a breed and other entrepreneurs get each other regardless of industry, you know, and so I think there's so much wisdom to what you said, the J curve thing and like giving up right at the point.
Stacy Havener: So true. Half the battle is just having the courage to stay alive and the wherewithal, but really just the decision that I'm not going to give up. If you really believe in it, that's so critical. Okay, I wanted to do a couple of fun questions with you. I mean, I think they're fun. I don't know how you're going to feel about them.
Stacy Havener: Um, I shouldn't assume you're going to think these are fun, but it's my version of Proust questionnaire, which is a way to get to know someone and kind of what you talked about in some of your meetings with fund managers. So the first one you actually said, which is what book inspires you?
Lucy Walker: Oh, I mean, I've got really into books lately, so I'm reading, I'm reading a lot more than I used to, and probably a [00:53:00] lot broader than I used to as well, um, but probably one that I have always valued having read is Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman.
Lucy Walker: I think that that was the first. book that really got me thinking about, you know, how quickly we respond to stuff and how that isn't always the best action. And yeah, that, I think that was really powerful.
Stacy Havener: That's a great one. So good. Okay. Next one. Going from books to places. What place inspires you? What's your happy place?
Stacy Havener: Oh,
Lucy Walker: just nature every time. All about the nature. Like a beach. We went to Norway recently. We saw the Northern Lights. We saw whales. Oh my goodness. Just nature, nature, nature. Yeah. Absolutely. Just fills me up.
Stacy Havener: So good. Okay. Going from places to songs, songs, songs. Yes. All right, so let's pretend and I know you do some speaking and I [00:54:00] know you've even just won some awards.
Stacy Havener: So like you've taken some stages here in your career. So let's pretend you're about to take the stage. Maybe you're going to give a keynote somewhere. And you're backstage and as you walk out, what song do they play?
Lucy Walker: Um, so I'm massively into drum and bass, which, uh, is probably a little bit different. I don't know.
Lucy Walker: Um, there's this song That's a remix. I actually don't know who it's by, but it's basically, it's a remix of, um, the Beatles come together. And, um, I think it's like urban something. Anyway, it's, it's a lot of fun. It's just got this great drop and yeah, I feel like that would probably be, uh, be the one, but I would have to stop myself then coming out and like dancing like an absolute lunatic.
Lucy Walker: I was just going to say, so maybe I need to change choice, but that, yeah, that's the one that came to mind.
Stacy Havener: No, because that would be fabulous. It's going to get everybody jazzed. Okay. What profession other than your own, would you like to attempt
Lucy Walker: to [00:55:00] attempt? Ooh. Um, I mean, I, I always kind of, so when I was growing up, I was told that I could be a really high powered PA just to kind of like get in there that, you know, like as a female, that was kind of what was, uh, you know, that was my level.
Lucy Walker: So I think when I was younger and I probably didn't realize. Like how many opportunities I could have in front of me. I thought that I could probably be a teacher. I think I, you know, I do quite a lot of kind of coaching in my work. And I think that that would probably be the thing. But yeah, attempt makes it feel like I should go for something bigger.
Lucy Walker: But yeah, teaching I think is what I always probably thought.
Stacy Havener: No, I think that's so great. I love that. I very much relate to that. Okay, flip side. What profession would you not like to do?
Lucy Walker: Um, anything where the hours are miserable. You know, like I'm so relieved that when my friend told me about HSBC, the internship, and she told me about, you know, asset management was the one she was going to apply for.
Lucy Walker: Thank goodness she didn't go for global markets, you know, like sitting [00:56:00] on the trading floor. I'm banking. Yeah. Like literally, um, just the thought of doing that is just, well, I just, I just couldn't, I couldn't do that. I couldn't have done it then. And now with kids and, you know, I just couldn't do it now.
Lucy Walker: So, yeah, I think. Yeah, that world is probably one that I just couldn't bring myself to invest in.
Stacy Havener: Totally. Um, time is such a valuable currency that we probably all underestimate until. Yes. Okay, so last one, and this is a ways away. What do you want people to say about you after you've retired or left the industry?
Stacy Havener: I,
Lucy Walker: would like to be known for having made a difference. You know, I want the, you know, AM insights is a platform. It's tech. It's like, but I want it to have facilitated people to understand things better for people to have been able to make better decisions for them to be able to grow their business. You know, that, that is what, if I could be remembered for those things, then that would be.
Lucy Walker: Incredible.
Stacy Havener: Well, I know that people are already saying that, [00:57:00] Lucy, because what you're doing is so great and so valuable. And I think, you know, really a hidden gem that investment boutiques and even the broader investment management asset management industry needs to be aware of. So I am cheering for you on.
Stacy Havener: So many levels as a fellow founder, as a female in this industry and for the work that you do. Thank you so much for being here with us. Oh, it's my pleasure.
Lucy Walker: Thank you for having me. Stacy.
Stacy Havener: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions.
Stacy Havener: The information is not an offer solicitation or recommendation of any of the funds services or products or to adopt any investment strategy. Investment values may fluctuate and past performance is not
Lucy Walker: a guide to future performance. All opinions expressed by guests on the show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their firm.
Lucy Walker: Manager's appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement by Stacey Havener or Havener Capital Partners.
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