Episode 87: People Invest in People | $6B CEO Conor Hoey on Raising Capital Through Relationships

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Raising capital isn’t about having the perfect pitch deck. And there’s no magic button that makes assets pour in.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to one thing: trust.

If you want to grow your boutique, you have to build real relationships with investors. Take it from $6B CEO Conor Hoey. He’s spent over a decade raising capital, leading investments, and even securing the right backers for his football club. And along the way, he’s learned one simple truth: People do business with people.

In this Episode, Conor and Stacy dig into:

• Why investors actually say yes (hint: it’s not just about performance)

• What football and finance have in common when it comes to finding the right investors

• The biggest mistakes boutique funds make when trying to break into new markets

• Why you need to stop hiding behind emails and start picking up the phone (seriously, just do it)

If you know relationships are the key to raising capital but aren’t sure how to actually build them, this Episode is for you.

Learn More About Conor Hoey:

Conor is the CEO of Gemini Capital in Ireland, an organisation that provides an easy and cost effective way for Investment Managers from around the world to create and distribute UCITS funds.  Having been in the Finance industry over 30 years in London and Dublin, he has worked across insurance, consulting, asset management and securities services.

Outside of work, he is well known for his passion for Drogheda United, a League of Ireland professional soccer club where his family’s involvement goes back 75 years.  Conor is a former chairman and current director of the club.  They recently won the Football Association of Ireland Cup, which he can be seen cradling in his profile picture.  This means European football for the club later in 2025.  He is also a keen musician, cook, traveller, pickleballer and soon to be author!  

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TRANSCRIPT

Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors. 

[00:00:00] Stacy Havener: Hey, my name is Stacy Havener. I'm obsessed with startups, stories, and sales. Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the toughest boys club, Wall Street. I've raised over 8 billion that has led to 30 billion in follow on assets for investment boutiques. You could say against the odds.

[00:00:21] Yeah. Understatement. I share stories of the people behind the portfolios, while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes. It's real talk here. Money, authenticity, growth, setbacks, sales, and marketing are all topics we discuss. Think of this as the capital raising class. You wish you had in college mixed with happy hour Pull up a seat grab your notebook and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn This is the billion dollar backstory podcast

[00:00:59] Connor thank you [00:01:00] so much for being with us today. This is a joy for me on a couple levels Uh, we have mutual friends and now we're friends. So a that Be A lot of investment stuff to talk about and see, and I'm not going to say most importantly, but I could soccer slash football. Can we go there today?

[00:01:19] Cause I'm really excited about that. Okay. We can,

[00:01:22] Conor Hoey: if you start me talking about football, I may never stop.

[00:01:27] Stacy Havener: Okay, so we'll save it. We'll save it. So let's start with something we were chatting about in the green room, which is, you know, here we sit today doing our respective thing. We're going to talk about what that is.

[00:01:38] Um, but is this, you know, is sort of finance and, and funds, is this what you always envisioned you would be doing? I want to get some backstory, um, and go way back, like take us through it.

[00:01:51] Conor Hoey: Sure. Yeah, um, absolutely not. No, I, I want it to be a rockstar, a footballer or a [00:02:00]chef, maybe, you know, one of those creative things.

[00:02:03] Um, but, um, I studied just across the road from my office today here in Dublin and Trinity college. And I ended up studying economics and business. And, you know, once you get into that and then, you know, you leave university, you get a graduate job and, you know, 30 years later, you're like, well, what happened there?

[00:02:20] And, uh, and, and it's like most people, we, we sort of, we, we, we fall into it. We fall into jobs and careers and, and you make the most of it. Then you get a bit interested in it and you get good at it and then you stick with it. And then you do something a bit different. You know, I've managed to find the work life balance that enables me to indulge all of the other things that I really wanted to do when I was a teenager, you know, so, um, so that's not a bad place to be.

[00:02:45] Stacy Havener: It's so true. I remember when I envisioned being a writer and. Didn't also similar to you and end up here in the finance world, but it's interesting how we don't in some ways it protects that [00:03:00] passion, doesn't it? Because we don't have to try to turn that passion into a way to pay the bills.

[00:03:05] Conor Hoey: Yeah, that's right.

[00:03:06] Um, having a decent career in finance. Means that I can, you know, afford to indulge myself in other things, I suppose, but also it enables even my wife to have a career in a far more meaningful way. I would say she works a lot in the charity sector and the creative sector, and, you know, it's great that one of us can do a job like that.

[00:03:28] And she works with people with acquired brain injuries and a lot of children with learning difficulties. And, you know, because I've got a decent job, she can do that. So it's a bit of yin yang between us. And that's, that's a nice way to be

[00:03:41] Stacy Havener: it is. And I also feel like I wonder if you feel this too, that because maybe your passions.

[00:03:50] We're outside of finance that it adds something to what you do inside of finance, like that non traditional, you know, [00:04:00] component. So can you speak to that a little?

[00:04:02] Conor Hoey: Yeah, I've always tried to be, you know, in a very conservative industry, tried to be a little bit rebellious. Um, you know, throughout my career, it's probably sometimes done me a slight disservice to certain times when I haven't told the party line and that sometimes might lead to you not getting the managing directorship in a certain place where you might've wanted it.

[00:04:25] But ultimately it leads you to, it might lead you to a place where you find the sort of. Place that you really wanted to end up in and the firm I'm in now, I've been with for nearly 10 years and now the CEO of the firm, and we built it together, myself and Stuart, the founder, um, we built it sort of with the values that we found really important all the way through and it's the values that I always wanted to find in other.

[00:04:49] Businesses about being kind to people and, and, and doing the right thing. And we've been able to indulge a lot of that here. We're not perfect, but we try and we try and, you know, get that sort of basic [00:05:00] ethics, right in the firm. But I, I, I do, you know, you do pick up a lot from very successful people along the way I used to have.

[00:05:06] I used to work for a gentleman when I was only 23 or four, um, I was an assistant to him. He's the CEO of Prudential Assurance in the UK. He was a very senior guy there and a guy called Jim Sutcliffe. And, uh, he was a big, he's still around generally. He's probably about six foot seven, six foot eight. Very tough, lovely man.

[00:05:23] And, uh, he treated every single person in the organization as if they were All exactly the same, the most senior person to literally the most junior person. He used to walk around the office and randomly sit with people, even the most junior administrator and just say, Hey, what are you doing today? Can I help?

[00:05:42] Can I learn what can, is there anything I can do in the business that would help you? And I, and I think he was a real inspiration for me, um, in how to treat people, right. Uh, when you're in senior positions, I thought he was just. Brilliant, Jim, just a really great guy. I think he's still a non executive. He was the chief executive of old mutual.

[00:05:58] [00:06:00] Um, yeah, but just, and he actually ran a, a lot of what he learned was when he was actually stationed in the U S he worked for Jackson national life up in Lansing and Michigan, he was the chief executive there. And he just had all the right ethics about how to run a big firm while being tough and smart, but being incredibly fair and decent.

[00:06:19] And that's what you want in business.

[00:06:21] Stacy Havener: It sure is. I love that story. I also can imagine putting myself in the shoes of someone who's more junior. When you have Jim come and sit next to you. Um, I can imagine there was a lot of terrified, terrified,

[00:06:35] Conor Hoey: but terrified. But after five minutes. You know, they say, God, what a nice guy.

[00:06:40] Like so genuine, so genuine, you know, and I've never forgot him, you know, and he was, he was a real, you know, as I say, there's not many people like that in my career who would say were that inspirational, but he was definitely one, you know?

[00:06:53] Stacy Havener: And so it sounds like there was, so now where you said smaller firm, you can build it your way.

[00:06:59] I [00:07:00] love that. And I want to talk about that, but I want to go back because there are some big firms. In your pedigree and it's, you know, it must be, I've never worked for a large firm, but it must be a great place in many ways when you first get into the business world, especially if this sort of wasn't in your DNA.

[00:07:19] Conor Hoey: Yeah.

[00:07:20] Stacy Havener: And so speak to that because I also think like, for me, I could never do it now. I'm just like, I'm, you know. Being an entrepreneur has ruined me in some respects, um, but talk about that journey from, from large firm, um, you know, to smaller, you

[00:07:36] Conor Hoey: know, it's, it's a great question. When, you know, when I worked for like Bank of New York melon or.

[00:07:42] Or we see, or any of these big banks and, uh, they were, you know, again, lots of great people that I worked with, but, you know, you see a lot of toxicity, to be honest with you around the place as well, particularly in the investment banking side, and, you know, there's just some behaviors I just. Quite beyond belief that just [00:08:00]never, I could never want them.

[00:08:01] I could never play the game really just didn't, just didn't suit me to play the game. I've known plenty of people did play the game and, you know, they got by that way, but it just wasn't me. But the main thing, when I moved into a small business. Of course, you learn everything all the way through your career.

[00:08:16] You learn lots of different things about how to deal politically with people and how to manage upwards and manage downwards, et cetera. But in a small business, then you learn about actual proper P and L responsibility, like proper, like, like paying my own wages, P and L responsibility and paying the wages of the people sitting next to you.

[00:08:36] And where the book really lies, like in every bank, like it didn't really matter. You screwed up, you get sacked. Hey, whatever. Like it's not really your ass on the line, but in a small business, it totally is. And people actually depend on you, um, for their livelihoods. And you're trying to build something for yourself and for your own family, for your future.

[00:08:57] And so, I mean, that, that to me is the [00:09:00] biggest thing is like, but I love the fact that we could cut through decision making here in a small firm as well. When we want to make a decision, I just phone Stuart or we get a couple people and say, Hey, we're going to do this. Boom. Whereas I'd be through 10 committees and eight risk management committees and two pricing committees and whatever.

[00:09:16] So I love the flexibility, the ability to pivot quickly on things, to make decisions quickly. I love that. I think that was probably one of the greatest frustrations in working in big organizations and big banks was that inability to make decisions quickly on things. So I love that. And that's why. You know, obviously I spent, whatever, 25, 30 years working or 25 years working in big organizations.

[00:09:40] I could never go back.

[00:09:41] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:09:42] Conor Hoey: Never, never. But, but it served me well, right? So I've no, I've no regrets about it. I think you learn huge amounts in big organizations. But if you want to really be what I kind of call a businessman, right? And I hate that or business person or businesswoman. Yeah. You know, really owning a P and [00:10:00] L properly is when you really understand what being an entrepreneur really is.

[00:10:03] And I'm not really an entrepreneur. I'm more of a sales guy, really, but I've learned how I've had to become more of an entrepreneur, which has been great, you know,

[00:10:10] Stacy Havener: talk about that. Cause hi, I, I very much relate to that comment of being a salesperson and then becoming an entrepreneur. And I also think that adds a layer.

[00:10:20] Conor Hoey: Yeah.

[00:10:20] Stacy Havener: Doesn't it?

[00:10:21] Conor Hoey: Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, I always worked in sales with most of my career working sales. Um, but you know, when you're the CEO of a firm and an entrepreneur, you're always selling like you're the face of the firm. You have to be always selling, always trying to close. And, you know, that's really any entrepreneur out there has is the front and center of the business because people buy you, they buy your values.

[00:10:45] And then you're, you're the people you've got around you reflect the values that you've grown there. So You know, it's sort of a natural transition and what I had to do, quite frankly, I'm relatively disorganized, Stacey. Like, let's face it, I'm [00:11:00] probably very disorganized. I have a lot of things running around my head, but, you know, I'm not a great guy for sitting down and writing 20 things on a list and go, right, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.

[00:11:09] You're probably going to show me a list now in a minute

[00:11:11] that you've got. No, I'm the same.

[00:11:12] Conor Hoey: I'm not great. So I recognized in this, in the business that there was a point I got to, and I thought, you know what, I am not a COO, right? I really am not a COO, and I was sort of trying to be a COO. So I had, you know, you have to recognize that.

[00:11:27] So I thought, hang on a minute, I'm not playing to my strengths here, and the business isn't getting the best out of me. So I brought in a COO, Sinead, business here now, and she's brought the structures, the focus, the diligence that you need, and it releases me to make. Bigger decisions think more strategically face off to clients face off to new business.

[00:11:49] So we work much better now when we've got that situation.

[00:11:51] Stacy Havener: That is such an important thing for founders to hear really, because there is something in the DNA. [00:12:00] And I know you're technically not in that founder role, but you have that founder personality and that entrepreneur personality, which is to say that we have to recognize what we're good at and what we're not.

[00:12:11] And we, it's really tough, but. We can't feel bad about it because I think you can really beat yourself up in that leadership seat, running a business where it's like, I got to know the numbers. I mean, I've, I've brought myself to tears over this, like, you know, my brain, why won't my brain just do what I want it to do?

[00:12:31] Yeah. Yeah. And

[00:12:32] Stacy Havener: then you realize like unique ability teamwork is such that. You have to just own your strengths and lean into them as opposed to trying really hard to overcome your weaknesses. Like, that's never gonna light you up.

[00:12:45] Conor Hoey: Yeah, that is a great, great point. We can't do everything, and some of us are good at some things and others are good at other things.

[00:12:52] So don't try to make yourself into something that you're not, we can always improve. Sure. And you have to continue, continuous improvement is a key for any of us, [00:13:00] learning more things, learning about, you know, doing training courses or, or online things or whatever it may be. But you know, what's interesting as well, Stacey is, is how, one thing I have realized, sorry, I'm going to deviate into football for the first time.

[00:13:11] Yeah,

[00:13:12] Stacy Havener: go ahead. But

[00:13:13] Conor Hoey: you know, one thing I have realized over the last 10 years is all of the skills and things that I learned in football. 25 years or whatever it was in big companies was actually you learn so much by osmosis and then going into look at a football club or in fact any other business now and i sit on the board of a number of other companies now in dublin is is actually you know you.

[00:13:37] I've learned more than I realized that I've learned, if that makes sense. And I, and the skills that I learned in, in working at a bank or in, in other big financial service organizations were equally applicable in running a football club.

[00:13:48] Stacy Havener: I love, keep going.

[00:13:50] Conor Hoey: And whether it's quality of attention to detail, looking at whatever it may be, we underestimate as business people, how much.[00:14:00]

[00:14:00] The skills we've learned in our sector are, could be applied to other sectors. And that's the real joy of true, what I call non executive directors who bring different perspectives. Uh, I, I do a lot of my own industry, so I'm not quite doing that, but just being able to bring that perspective into a football club has, I think I was able to add a lot of value just in doing that as well.

[00:14:18] So, you know, you could come onto the board of a football club without knowing anything about it, but you'd bring a totally different perspective. People would go, Oh yeah. That's another way of looking at it. We underestimate ourselves generally. I think

[00:14:29] Stacy Havener: we do. And we underestimate that applicability of skillset

[00:14:33] totally.

[00:14:33] Cause

[00:14:33] Stacy Havener: we think it's very industry specific. I want to talk about how you even came to, I mean, it really is kind of a going back to one of your first loves of football. So I want to talk about that. There was a comment you made in an article I read. Um, that talked about people doing business with people.

[00:14:54] And so I'm going to keep that little nugget, that little gem, because I want to come back to it. But [00:15:00]first tell us the story of how did you come to, since you were an owner, am I right? Like, like tell us the whole thing.

[00:15:06] Conor Hoey: Yeah, it's a bit more complicated. The, um, so look, it's, it's, it's, I was born in a town called Drogheda, which is 30 miles North of Dublin.

[00:15:15] Um, and our local football club, United and they play in the League of Ireland, which is basically the National League here in a, in soccer. My father played for them as a youth in the 1950s. He became a director of the club in the 1960s. He was the chairman in the sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, two thousands.

[00:15:35] So he basically was Mr. United for 55 years. Right. And, and, um, so it was very much, or 60 years, I should say. So it was a very much at the heart of our family. I grew up with this constant Draw the United in the background. I went to the games as a kid, um, and dad was always involved. So, you know, I, I grew up in the middle.

[00:15:55] I'm writing a book about it, by the way, Stacey. So I'll send you a copy when I'm finished. Okay,

[00:15:59] Stacy Havener: wonderful. Um, [00:16:00] but,

[00:16:01] Conor Hoey: uh, and so, but a long story short, I, I left Ireland when I finished university here in Dublin. I went to London and I was in London from 1991 to 2014. Um, no, 2015, 16 actually. Sorry. Yeah. And, um, throughout that time, you know, I was still a fan of the club, but my father was heavily involved.

[00:16:20] He basically, he died a couple years ago, but he, he basically put every penny he had into the football club and things were pretty good in Ireland. Early 2000s and him with a couple of his friends, they put, I'm going to say 10 million more into the football club. We won the national league. We won the cup.

[00:16:37] We were in the European football, the champions league, the UEFA cup, everything. Right. We won everything. Uh, and then the financial crisis hit and basically we lost it all, but we saved, but my sister then got involved. She saved the football club. Then when we went to go to the court to save it and everything, anyway.

[00:16:56] Dad remained involved and was always passionate about it up [00:17:00] until until he died. But when I came back to Ireland in 20, whatever it was, 15, you know, I sort of got dragged back into the club because it's sort of in the blood. And, uh, by 2018, some, a couple of the guys that persuaded me to join the board.

[00:17:14] So I joined the board of the club. I became the chairperson and got heavily involved and got us promoted back into the top division in Ireland. So it will be a good success by 2022. I realized that we were basically what we call a member owned club, which is basically about a thousand people own the club.

[00:17:33] It's like a collective, a cooperative ownership.

[00:17:35] But

[00:17:37] Conor Hoey: I knew we just didn't have the financial wherewithal, um, to, to, to keep the club going. And basically I was hiding money from my wife and putting it into the football club, you know, I mean, it was, it was not, not a good way to be. And a number of us were doing that, you know, so we were, you know, it really wasn't sustainable.

[00:17:54] And so I just, I said, Board at the time I said, look, I'm going to go and find investors because [00:18:00] we cannot continue like this. So I resigned as the chairperson. I stayed on the board and I went out to find investors. And there's a big, long story about how I spoke to people from the Middle East to Turkey, to China, to you name it, everywhere, all over the world to try and invest in the football club and to cut a very long story short.

[00:18:18] We ended up with, um, a firm called Travella Group who are based in Birmingham, Alabama, and they are, um, they own two other football clubs, or actually three or four other football clubs, a couple in Africa, one in Denmark, and one in the UK, in the, in the, in the National League in the UK called Walsall, um, and they ended up Over an 18 month period of convincing them and doing due diligence, buying our club and, uh, they've become great friends, particularly the, the, the main guy there, Wesley Hill, who's now a very good friend of mine living in Austin.

[00:18:53] And, uh, the rest of the guys are in Birmingham, Alabama, and they're backed by a multifamily office. Um, a lot of the investors [00:19:00] are from a firm called Arlington Capital, um, who are based in Birmingham as well. Terrific guys for him run by Ken Polk, just the nicest people you could meet. And now I have all these wonderful American friends who, who run this, who run my football club and who, you know, allow me to sleep well at night because their, their financial backing has enabled us and the fairy tale.

[00:19:21] Really their first year, we completed the purchase in maybe February 24. Uh, and that season against all the odds and against everything, we won the national cup for the first time in 20 years. And we were at. Wesley and I were out on the pitch in front of 40, 000 supporters holding the cup that we won. So it's like a fairy tale and we're not going to be in European football this year, um, because of it.

[00:19:47] And the guys in the States are just blown away by how successful they've been in the first year. I mean, it was totally unexpected. So it's a real fairy tale and it's a nice ending. Look, football is full of, or soccer is full of, full of. Ups and [00:20:00] downs and maybe, you know, we won't have such a good year next year, but it's, it's been a real, uh, amazing journey to bring a club that was on its knees through to finding these amazing investors to having success on the pitch.

[00:20:13] And all the people around me in the club have worked so hard. I mean, I could list, I could list a hundred people who've worked so hard on this. So it's, it's been, um, but again, all the stuff I, I was able to go out. Cause of my background in sales and investments and everything, I was able to know how to pitch the club to people, to potential investors.

[00:20:33] And I knew we, you know, we'd lots of people in the Middle East throwing silly money at us, but they weren't the right partners. And the Americans were the right partners because they get it, what we're all about and the values. And this goes back to values. It wasn't, there was a lot of people throwing money at us, but they weren't really, they just wanted to buy success.

[00:20:50] They weren't interested in the values of the community, the history of the town, the history of the club. And we found people who shared the values and it was about people doing [00:21:00] business with people. And I immediately from the first call I had with Wesley, we spent five minutes talking about football, the club, then we spoke about barbecues.

[00:21:09] Travel Austin. I just been back from holiday in Austin. So it's a bit weird. We just got on immediately. Now he's 20 years younger than me, but we were still able to talk about music and barbecue and whatever the hell it was and then sport generally. He's an ex Nike executive and we just hit it off. And I knew I came off that call.

[00:21:26] I phoned one of the other guys on the board of the football club and I went, this is the guy. These are the people.

[00:21:32] Stacy Havener: It's just such a great, well, first of all, it's a fantastic story and I love that you're turning into a book because it's going to be magical. I can't wait to read it. There are so many lessons.

[00:21:43] I don't think

[00:21:43] Conor Hoey: Brad Pitt is going to play me in the movie. I

[00:21:45] Stacy Havener: mean, he should listen. I don't think he's listening to this podcast either, but if he is. If he is, Moneyball is great. Moneyball is great. This is, you know,

[00:21:55] Conor Hoey: so I

[00:21:57] Stacy Havener: have so many questions about [00:22:00] this, but The biggest thing, I mean, they're, it's just mic drop all the levels, the idea.

[00:22:06] Yes. That people do business with people. And I'm going to pull that thread even more because you knew quickly. Didn't you, you said I talked with Wesley for five minutes about football and then you made a friend and you hung up the phone and you just knew. And that's the thing. It's not easy, but it's simple.

[00:22:27] Yeah.

[00:22:28] Stacy Havener: And it's very similar to what happens, especially for a boutique that is battling the odds. Much, much like your soccer club, your football club was, um, you don't need everyone to like you. You don't need every dollar or any dollar. You need a very specific. Special someone that this is for, and it takes time to find that person or that group.

[00:22:54] But you did. And as soon as you did, you knew,

[00:22:57] Conor Hoey: yeah, you know, you're absolutely right. And [00:23:00] the best relationships, you know, even in my business now, we have 10 or so investment managers that we work with in our business. You know, Stuart, our founder, always says to me, so we only work with people that we like, and, you know, and, and I really, I like the mantra.

[00:23:19] I agree with you, you know, now look, it doesn't mean you have to love them, you know, you can be respectful, but generally every one of our clients, we like them, you know, when I, when they phone me up. I have a nice chat with them. I mean, sometimes we might have a disagreement on things. That's fine. That's business, but we generally like them and they would, you know, generally share our values.

[00:23:38] And we're, we're, we're setting up just as an example, Stacey, where we're setting up a fund for a new manager based in San Francisco at the moment. And, uh, I've had maybe, you know, I'm going to say three or four calls with them. And. I immediately, I can tell, I just know the guy, Sam is his name and Sarah, I immediately know that we're going to get [00:24:00] on like, I know we've got on the call so far and I'm going to meet them in London in a few weeks, but I can tell that the sort of people we want to do business with.

[00:24:07] And we will make, not that we don't, we make an effort with everybody. Right. But you want to go the extra mile for people that you like. And my staff here, it's the same, you know, when people are nice to them and treat them nice and treat them respectfully, they'll go the extra mile for you. And it's going with all of our suppliers.

[00:24:23] You know, we, you know, we have, we have sometimes difficult, you know, relationships with some of our suppliers. But when it comes to Christmas, we'll always send them a gift and say, look, I really appreciate your hard work this year. And I had an instance last week where I had to, I'm going to say, send a really difficult note to one of our service suppliers, really difficult.

[00:24:43] And it was about as harsh as I get. And I'm. Generally nice all the time, but I really had to put on my, you know, tough hat, but I did say at the end of it that this is not personal against any other person in this business. Everybody is doing their best, but [00:25:00] I feel they're being let down by the corporate behind them, who's not giving them the resources that they need to succeed.

[00:25:06] So I respect everybody there and I appreciate all their hard work. And that's, that was key. And I don't, I would never want anyone to think that I'm having to go with them because I know they try hard for us, but if sometimes people haven't got the training or the systems, the processes in place, that's not their fault.

[00:25:21] It's senior management fault. That's

[00:25:22] Stacy Havener: right.

[00:25:22] Conor Hoey: So, you know, so you just, you've got to just try and try and keep people on side and be reasonable. People try hard. Most people, 99 percent of people try hard to do the right thing. Things go wrong sometimes. It's okay when you try and fix it, you fail, you do it better the next time.

[00:25:39] So you just got to be open about failure, address it and do it better.

[00:25:47] Stacy Havener: Are you an investment boutique looking to grow your business and need a little help? If you feel like you're fighting for the spotlight and well, still stuck in the shadows of the bigs, join us in the Boutique Investment Collective, Havener's new [00:26:00] membership community dedicated to the specialist in the investment industry.

[00:26:03] In the collective, we'll guide you through the billion dollar blueprint we've used to help boutiques add over 30 billion in AUM. You'll refine your story, focus on your ideal target market, and practice your pitch. You'll rethink your marketing materials, rewrite your emails, and refresh your differentiators.

[00:26:21] We'll even help you step up your LinkedIn game and give your profile a makeover. You want to grow your biz, we've got your back. Learn more about the collective, the curriculum, and the amazing coaches who will help you on your journey. Visit Haven or capital. com slash collective high five. Hope to see you in a coaching session soon.

[00:26:54] Yeah, and you know, I

[00:26:55] Stacy Havener: think it's a great lesson on The [00:27:00] people the intent right if their intent is to help but they end up actually harming like it It wasn't what they set out to do and I think you captured that really well there Going back to your partners in your business because I mean here we are we've been chatting and we haven't really gone into it, but we're gonna keep weaving football in because That's

[00:27:22] okay.

[00:27:22] Stacy Havener: Is it similar for you when you're thinking about a business partner that you are going to help bring overseas or to help them distribute, um, in Europe at, at L and, and other places, you know, my rational brain would say, Oh, there's a formula for this. You look for a firm that's been successful in wherever and they're big and they're crushing it.

[00:27:51] And you say, aha, yes, we'll just take that playbook and we'll apply it, you know, to, to Europe or Asia or whatever. [00:28:00] But I don't think that it's that simple. And I don't think that's how you select your partners. So I want you to speak to that.

[00:28:06] Conor Hoey: Yeah, well, firstly, it isn't necessarily about being big, actually, because small can be really beautiful as well.

[00:28:15] And, and, you know, there are, and I'm just coming back to the San Francisco manager I mentioned there, their manager would, I don't know, half a billion, a billion in the U. S. Right. So not. You know, nice, but not crazy, but they've got a really interesting strategy and it's not a strategy you see much of in Europe and they've got a great ESG story around it and the heritage, the backgrounds of the individuals.

[00:28:40] It's really strong and they understand the markets in Europe. So you, you then, you know, so they've got, and they've got a good distribution story that will really appeal to investors in Europe and certain markets. The most important thing to say to certainly to potential us, you know, your Europe is not as, as everyone knows, it is not a homogenous market in any [00:29:00] shape or form people think, Oh yeah, I can get into Europe well.

[00:29:03] That's not really, I mean, you can passport funds around Europe and you can set up a fund in Dublin or Luxembourg generally, but to distribute a fund in Luxembourg or in Switzerland is different from France, from Germany, from Italy, from the UK, and there's all little nuances and certain strategies appeal to certain types of investors.

[00:29:22] Probably not hugely dissimilar in the states that you might, you might, you'll obviously be more likely to sell an oil based fund in Texas than you might be to sell it in Vermont. I don't know, you know, so for example, so there are cultural differences which would affect investor choice. Um, And you'll see that, you know, you might have slightly more conservative thinking in, in certain markets, or for example, let's say the Nordics ESG would be more prevalent in funds there.

[00:29:46] And pretty much you can't distribute a fund in the Nordics unless it's ESG, you know, based, so you have to look at the markets and see each market is slightly different. What we try to do. Is to find these interesting strategies in the U S or [00:30:00] elsewhere. And we're looking at a fund for a Chinese manager at the moment, see what's unique about how they approach their investment strategy and see the strength of their pitch book and their story and what makes them different, makes them unique.

[00:30:12] Because, um, you know, there's no point somebody coming to me and saying, Hey, I've got a global equity fund. And somebody goes, yeah, but like. Black rock. I've got a hundred, you know, like, like, how are you going to compete with, you know, fidelity or, you know, it's, it's trying to find the funds, which is like, you know, there'll be a small cap growth strategy or a small cap value strategy, or make up something a little bit different with a great track record and people, and then you match up that us manager to a distributor in different markets in Europe.

[00:30:41] So it could be, you know, what you look at a fund, you go. That's a great fun. It will really appeal to the UK wealth management space who are looking for solutions like that, but it won't appeal in Spain. So we're not going to, we're not going to register it in Spain. Um, so we won't look at that. So you sort of have to tailor it and [00:31:00] just check out where there's going to be demand for the fund.

[00:31:02] And that's the most important thing to say to any potential manager from the U. S. Historically, there was a lot of funds set up in Europe by us managers, and they just registered them all over Europe and assumed in the total field of dreams world, if you build it, they will come. It doesn't happen, right?

[00:31:19] So you have to sell funds as much as if to sell funds in the U S you go sell them in Europe and it's relationship based. So you need help on the distribution side in Europe would experience people who understand the market and the different markets or understands the nuances of different markets to build the relationships.

[00:31:36] And then the investment manager in the U. S. has to support them by coming into those meetings or online and getting that pitch across. So, you know, it's a, it's a partnership between the U. S. firm and distributors in Europe. We in Dublin effectively create the infrastructure. We create the product and we help you to find the right distributors across Europe.

[00:31:56] To match that product to, to, to, to those markets. [00:32:00] So that's really, um, uh, where, how we bring value in that regard. But it's, it's, it's, you know, I, there's many, as the time stays where I turn out to managers go, you know what, there's no, there's no demand for this fund. Don't do it.

[00:32:13] Stacy Havener: Sometimes that's the best advice we can give is to, is to, is to protect them from themselves.

[00:32:20] And it's interesting to me how many layers of people doing business with people you just touched on.

[00:32:27] Yeah,

[00:32:27] Stacy Havener: because it is very much about finding the right partner on the asset management side, but it's also matching them with the right type of allocator, both geographically and on the curve of adoption for sure.

[00:32:41] And then, oh, by the way, let's figure out the right distributor to match them with because that's also a really important dynamic. And so you're really sitting at the middle, you know, at the center of all of these. Constituents that make for a healthy ecosystem and a successful business. It's a, there's a lot

[00:32:59] Conor Hoey: [00:33:00] totally.

[00:33:00] And that's Stuart, my colleague, Stuart describes us as a dating agency. Sometimes, but he's, he's, he's, he is right because effectively we're, we're finding fun buyers. And we're trying to, and we have a, and we have a, uh, you know, the, the, the, the investment manager and we're the ones in the middle saying, Hey, we'll make the product happen.

[00:33:19] But if we don't have those two parties, we don't have, we don't have any, we don't have

[00:33:22] Stacy Havener: a deal. Yeah. And,

[00:33:23] Conor Hoey: and if you don't have demand for the product, as I say, don't bother setting up a fund.

[00:33:27] Stacy Havener: Yeah. You know, it's, I think there's a point in time for a lot of boutiques where they say, okay, I've achieved some measure of success.

[00:33:38] We're not, you know, not. Double digit billions, perhaps I think it happens sooner than that kind of what you described with your San Francisco firm and you start thinking about diversifying your investor base and and, you know, really kind of building a business that is healthier to use that word again.

[00:33:56] And Europe for sure comes on your radar. [00:34:00] And now you see, well, interestingly,

[00:34:02] Conor Hoey: Stacey, though, sorry to interrupt, you know, you say Europe and what we create in Ireland here are UCITS products, UCITS products, which are, let's just say they're equivalent to 40 act products in the simplest sense, right? It's not just Europe where those can be sold in certainly the Southeast Asia, you know, Singapore, lots of other markets, Middle East.

[00:34:23] But really, interestingly, I think. They are sold into the offshore U. S. space.

[00:34:28] Stacy Havener: That's a great point.

[00:34:30] Conor Hoey: So, and into South America, which is, which is the market of the future, you know, like, uh, I'm, I'm going down to Mexico next month myself, just to, to explore a bit and just get my, my head around the country and the wealth that's being created down there as well.

[00:34:43] But the. You know, the amount of, that's the future generation and that usage products are now being sold into Latin America heavily, particularly Chile, the pension funds in Chile. But in that US offshore space that we see huge amounts of trades coming in through what we call the NSCCs for brokers in [00:35:00] Miami through, you know, Morgan Stanley and Schwab and, and, and UBS and, and others in Pershing.

[00:35:07] You, you, you sort of have a product. Hit that little bit of slight domestic market that you don't hit with 40. Yeah,

[00:35:15] Stacy Havener: so I'm glad you added that. You might

[00:35:16] Conor Hoey: have relationships down in Florida, which you can exploit and use this product.

[00:35:19] Stacy Havener: So this is a great point because I think, so thank you for that clarification and expansion of, of this idea, because I think boutiques hit a point where they say, okay, we'll, we'll rephrase to say sort of non us or non onshore investor base.

[00:35:36] Okay. And then they sit and they go, yeah, that's what I need. That's what I need. I have had multiple clients go through this process. So I speak from experience and it usually starts by the way, with some allocator in Florida who has non U S investors. Uh, I'm sorry, who has offshore money that they need.

[00:35:55] You know, you've got the strategy. They just need the vehicle, but here's the big, but [00:36:00] then they just think you spin it up. I throw it out there and all your problems are solved. Have you ever met firms? And so it doesn't, it doesn't work. And so when I've asked clients who have successfully done this type of thing, launched a UCIP version.

[00:36:20] And I remember going to him and saying, okay, what's like the one thing I need to know for clients who ask us for advice on this? And they said, do not do it without a good partner. And so speak to that because it's, it seems like it's just a vehicle thing, but it's so much more than that.

[00:36:41] Conor Hoey: Now the vehicle, it's, it's like, uh, we often, I often say what we do here in Dublin is rather equivalent to the serious trust model you're familiar with in the US.

[00:36:52] And the same sort of thing, you know, if you don't have a, you can create a product, that's not difficult to create the product and have a fund up and running. You've got [00:37:00] to have somebody out there pushing it and having a really coherent story. And it's even with that, with that Latin American space, there are certain distribution firms like capital strategies based out of, uh, uh, Madrid, great guys, um, unicorns, another one, which is down in, uh, in, in Florida and who really understand the LATAM market.

[00:37:17] So, you know, they're the sort of people to bring the products to them and go, Hey. Could you be able to assist us in this space? But equally, most us firms would be familiar with fund buyers in Miami or whatever it is. So you can exploit some existing relationships there and go, Hey, I know I can then you'd talk about a 40 act product, but we're going to have a uses fund, which we appeal, which would appeal to the offshore us space.

[00:37:39] And until that, um, would that be of interest to you? Yes, maybe it would be, you know, so they can, you know, they can help to find some seeding and for the fund, you know, there's, as I say, we're, we're actually launching a Latin American fund, um, uh, for a manager, a London based manager at the moment, um, which we hope will sell back into, to Lanham as well.

[00:37:58] So there's, there's a [00:38:00] lot happening in that market. That's one that I see real, real growth in. And, uh, and there's, as I say, there's significant assets down there.

[00:38:07] Stacy Havener: They're really, it's so true. And having. We stepped into this space and, and quickly realized we were out over our skis, um, because it is like anything, um, you know, there are nuances to that market that are better understood by somebody who's.

[00:38:26] In that, like who's lived that market. I mean, I don't speak Spanish. I, so there were just a whole bunch of things that didn't work well for us in trying to, um, to facilitate this. So I really, really understand at a deep level, the importance of having the right partner, not just to help you set up the vehicle and the strategy, but to your point, to actually distribute that strategy.

[00:38:53] Conor Hoey: Yeah,

[00:38:54] Stacy Havener: in a specific channel,

[00:38:55] Conor Hoey: and that is an, that's basically an X uses really considered to be an [00:39:00] X us strategy.

[00:39:01] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:39:01] Conor Hoey: Right. It can be sold into Canada, Australia, Southeast Asia, Middle East, South Africa. We sell them into South Africa across Europe. UK, Switzerland, whatever it may be, you know, it's, it's, it's pretty much the global standard for non us products.

[00:39:17] Stacy Havener: And so I want to put I want to keep going with this a little bit because if I put myself in the shoes of a fund manager who might be listening, how do I know just from a strategy perspective? How do I know if my strategy even lends itself? Obviously liquidity. Um But like, are there certain types of strategy that, that just don't make sense?

[00:39:39] Like, I mean, we, you know, obviously if you're munis, for instance,

[00:39:46] there's some stuff that's just nonsensical, but like, how else do you test it? In your own mind,

[00:39:52] Conor Hoey: what will you use? It's generally is a reasonably broad range of investment strategies without going into it. And [00:40:00] liquidity is the key of it. Really?

[00:40:01] Okay.

[00:40:01] Conor Hoey: You know, you can have lots of derivatives based strategies and uses.

[00:40:05] We have one which is very much based on auto calls as swaps, etc. But it's allowable within uses. Yeah, it's, it's allowable because of liquidity, but what, what doesn't fall into use is, is the really illiquid stuff, private equity strategies, real estate, et cetera. You can put those into an alternative investment fund, um, and some of these private credit strategies and things like that, which are less liquid.

[00:40:25] So generally used to think of it, as I said before, more of that 40 acts sort of general. Space really. And, uh, but you know, what we do is if somebody's got a strategy out there, they think it's good. We'll run it through our systems here to see whether it's used. It's compliant. That's the first thing, because any manager in the U S has to comply with the usage rules, which is lots of things about concentration, liquidity, et cetera, so that we can, we can say, Hey, The strategy fits, or you have to tweak it a little bit.

[00:40:53] You might be too concentrated on this or, you know, so here's some of your kind of party management might be slight, need to be slightly [00:41:00] different. So, um, but most things which would be in the, you know, the main investment management space in the U S will fall into, would be falling into uses. And then it's a case of, again, like I mentioned earlier.

[00:41:11] You know, you know, us large cap strategies, you know, like great, great, you know, I mean, maybe you've got the most amazing track record and maybe there's something about your research or how you approach it, which is unique. And if it is, maybe there's something, maybe there's maybe, maybe you've got something different, but another me too, against the big guys, you're just going to die on price.

[00:41:34] So if you're trying to say, Hey, I can generate alpha, but, you know, I'm a little bit more expensive, you need to be able to demonstrate why you're worth taking a punt on like that, but equally, you know, sometimes with seed investors, you know, they look for a good deal. So you might have to cut a little deal on the first few investors into the fund.

[00:41:50] Can you do that? You can do a founder share class? Yeah, founders.

[00:41:54] I love that. Yeah. Founders

[00:41:55] Conor Hoey: share classes. Yep. Yeah. Um, for seeders. And, uh, And [00:42:00] sometimes, you know, in, you know, a fund really, I always say to people, you know, a fund really only becomes mature, certainly over a hundred million, like you're always on a bit of a battle till you get to a hundred million and a hundred million, you sort of on the radar of more people just because there are more potential fund buyers because the size of the fund.

[00:42:17] Um, when you're at 10 million, you know, the fund doesn't really work. The numbers don't look good. Um, cause the expenses of the fund are generally, you know, You end up having to subsidize it, but once you, we all say to somebody, look, we like, if there's a fund starting with us, we always say you need 50 million of seed sometimes start with a little bit less.

[00:42:35] Right. But, but generally we aim to get 50 million in there and then you can find a pathway to a hundred once you had a hundred. Okay. Expense ratios are reasonable. We can now really push it and, and as I say, you're on the, the radar.

[00:42:48] Stacy Havener: And do you help in that? So with the distribution partners that you have, can you help with the Cedar piece or no?

[00:42:55] Well,

[00:42:56] Conor Hoey: usually they are, they are usually they're the ones who go and find seed. [00:43:00] Yeah. Yeah. And, and again, similarly they, they will say. Um, each one of them is slightly different commercials. There's some one man bands, there's some funny people, there's some bigger organizations. They tend to be smaller firms, right?

[00:43:13] And they, they, they don't tend to be multi jurisdictional. So we would have one client of ours who would have, like, Maybe five different distributors in different jurisdictions. So you might have somebody who's a total UK specialist in the wealth management space, for example. And then you might have somebody in, in, who just concentrates on the Nordics.

[00:43:32] And then you might have somebody who's really good in France, for example, or Spain or some, you know, we have one distributor. Who does a lot in just the Latin America, sorry, um, Iberia, you know, Portugal, uh, Spain, uh, and Latin America, you know, so, so, and then you might have other people that might cover like Germany, Switzerland, Austria.

[00:43:50] So you could be sometimes it's linguistically driven. Um, so, so you may end up with a number of different distributors and look, I'm not going to pretend, [00:44:00] um, you know, they all have different commercials and they all need to be paid, right? So people don't do anything for nothing. So there will be retainers with them, but again, when choosing a distributor, you know, it is about that relationship again, that we started off with, it's about finding the people who you trust that you can work with.

[00:44:16] You think, you know what, when I'm paying this guy, a retainer of X every month, I know I'm going to get value for money out of him. He's being straight up with me or she's straight up with me all the time. Um, and if a distributor comes after a month and says, you know what, I, I think I'm actually struggling here.

[00:44:31] We're not going to get you any demand. and walks away from it. That's, that's a good, in a way, that's what you want is people just being honest with you rather than saying, Hey, we've got a retainer going here and I'll keep just going out, but hitting a brick wall. No, that's a waste of time. You know, you know what you want?

[00:44:48] You want people to just call it as it is. And if it's not good news. Tell them off. I have a client who said to me recently, he just said, Connor, if anything is wrong, phone me and tell me right [00:45:00] before, as soon as you know, right? I don't want to hear two days after the event that there was a problem. Even if you fixed it, tell me straight away, be honest with me and we'll never have a problem.

[00:45:08] I said, no, that's good advice. And I think that's. You have a relationship underpinned like that. You're, you're a good place.

[00:45:14] Stacy Havener: It's great advice on a lot of levels and not the least of which is for fund managers to hear that to do something like this is an investment. It's an investment of dollars. It's an investment of resources.

[00:45:30] It's an investment of time. It's an investment on all the levels. Like this is not, you know, This is not spin up a use it's, uh, and you know, get a, um, quick, like there is no, there is no easy button that you can hit and, and assets come through the door. And I think there is. A little bit of, you know, it's probably hope.

[00:45:53] I mean, sure. That would be nice, but it's not real.

[00:45:56] Conor Hoey: It doesn't always work out. Look, we, we set up a fund for a manager [00:46:00] from the U S a couple of years ago. And they, the market just turned against their strategy. It was a very specific preferred dividend strategy and the market just turned against them. So when we started the process that was demand, and by the time we had the fund ready to go, the demand had stopped.

[00:46:16] Yeah.

[00:46:18] Conor Hoey: We all pulled the plug. We said, guys, this is not in your interest or in our interest to do that, you know, so it was a little bit painful, but, you know, because we'd all invested a lot of time on it, but it was the realities of the market. Sometimes you just have to live with

[00:46:31] Stacy Havener: you do.

[00:46:32] Conor Hoey: So there's always a little bit of risk.

[00:46:33] You know, this is not risk free. The main thing Stacey is. If a US manager is going to do it, be prepared to invest the time and I don't necessarily mean, okay, there's some operational stuff, not a huge amount, invest the time in, in, in, in the asset raising side.

[00:46:49] Stacy Havener: Tell me more about that. What do you mean?

[00:46:51] Does that mean they have to be on a plane every month or what does that mean?

[00:46:54] Conor Hoey: Yeah. Yeah. Well, if, if, if you decide to employ a. Um, a third party marketing firm in, in [00:47:00] Spain, and they say, this is great. We love this strategy. We've got 40 banks that we're going to go around or wealth managers in Madrid or whatever.

[00:47:08] Um, and they say, but I need you over here at least once a quarter, you, you're a head of sales plus the investment manager of the fund, make the commitment. Do it, get on the plane because the fun buyer in Spain will sit there and go, he got on a plane from Atlanta and he came and saw me in Madrid and he came again, three months later and he came again, three months later.

[00:47:32] Stacy Havener: Yes.

[00:47:33] Conor Hoey: So now he really is committed and he's shown me over nine months that this, that, that this fund is, is performing the way he or she said it was going to perform. Now I'm ready to invest. Nobody's going to invest after the first meeting, right? That doesn't work.

[00:47:47] Stacy Havener: No.

[00:47:48] Conor Hoey: You have to build a relationship.

[00:47:49] Stacy Havener: I love this comment.

[00:47:51] I love this whole thing right here. Because it's also a little bit. I can imagine if you're on the receiving end of this, so you're [00:48:00] an allocator in Spain, it's one thing for the manager to get on a plane one time, right? Anybody will do something one time. The real. Test to me is that second, third, are you still in it when the novelty wears off?

[00:48:17] Are you still in it when it gets hard? Right?

[00:48:22] Yeah.

[00:48:22] Stacy Havener: And that's the tough stuff. I love that. That is such good advice.

[00:48:27] Conor Hoey: But, but, but Stacy, the other key thing is it comes back to very much where we started people buying from people. I have one of my best friends is a guy called Kevin O'Neill here in Dublin.

[00:48:38] Kevin's. He's quite famous in the financial industry and he's a famous sports person in Ireland as well, but he, he, he worked in the States for a long time with me when I was at RPC, actually. And, uh, he in, he was incessant about getting on planes. And as soon as there'd be a door open, he was in sales, he'd be on a plane to see them.

[00:48:59] he's [00:49:00] the most charming, great company full of stories. Like everybody meets Kevin, just loves him, right? He's just a great guy. And he would bombard clients face to face, Hey, John, I'm in Minneapolis next week. I'm coming to see you a month later. I'm in Minneapolis again. I'm coming to see you like, and, but he was brilliant at building and he would always say, get on the plane, get on the plane.

[00:49:27] And it was, it was those in the one to one meetings, like it's, you know, it's like we're talking over zoom or whatever now or over it's, and it's, it's fine, but you know, you really build a relation when I meet you

[00:49:40] or,

[00:49:40] Conor Hoey: you know, when I, when we're face to face, it makes it different. And I had some clients come in from Chicago last week who I've known and I've spoken to on the phone a lot, but we, you know, we spent a couple of hours in the office.

[00:49:51] We went out to lunch and we got to know them as people.

[00:49:54] Stacy Havener: That's right.

[00:49:55] Conor Hoey: And it's about where they were going holidays and the guy who was the chief legal counsel of these huge investment [00:50:00] managers, lovely, lovely man. And over lunch, we discovered that we'd both been in Japan last year, that we both had kids the same age, that they were both in love with Japan.

[00:50:09] And we talked about that for most of the lunch. And so I now have a personal relationship with the individual, which means he can pick up the phone to me if there's a problem. And likewise. And we know that we're two decent human beings would share some, uh, common, um, you know, interests. So it just underpins the relationship so much more.

[00:50:31] So again, coming back to it, you know, build the personal relationships with suppliers or with potential clients. That's what you need to do.

[00:50:40] Stacy Havener: It's that is. That's our theme. We started there. We're, we're wrapping there because it is a big difference. And let's add, so get on the plane. 100%. Can I also do this?

[00:50:52] No one can see this cause this is a podcast.

[00:50:54] Conor Hoey: Okay.

[00:50:55] Stacy Havener: Remember this? Remember this thing?

[00:50:56] Conor Hoey: Get on the phone.

[00:50:57] Stacy Havener: Pick up the phone. This is like [00:51:00] my most maddening thing with my team. It's like, Oh, but I sent an email. Oh, okay. You know what? Pick up the phone.

[00:51:07] Conor Hoey: Yeah. You're going to love this. I heard on the radio last.

[00:51:12] You can't believe, I heard on the radio last week that in the UK, they are running courses for Generation Z people to teach them how to use the phone. Stop

[00:51:22] Stacy Havener: it. I mean, but they should.

[00:51:24] Conor Hoey: I'm not, I am not joking you, no, to teach them how to talk on the phone. Hi, Stacey. My name is Connor. I'm calling you from Gemini Capital.

[00:51:35] How are you today?

[00:51:36] Stacy Havener: But, but for real. But they're teaching them. Okay. However, they don't, they don't know how to do it. And you know, here's the thing that that's missing and I get this, it is terrifying to pick up the phone on some level. Okay. It's terrifying. It's terrifying to make a cold call. It's it's all the things, all the emotions, [00:52:00]right?

[00:52:00] And you're going to screw them up and you're going to sound like an idiot. That happens to all of us, but the email and the text, that's a cop out. That's just you not being brave enough to do the thing. That's actually going to make a difference.

[00:52:20] Conor Hoey: But, you know, I always think one of the things that always strikes me about the U S salespeople are treated with more respect in the U S than they are in Europe.

[00:52:29] Yeah. I think if you say in the U S I work in sales, people go, Hey. Yep, great. Because the whole entrepreneurial capitalist nature of the US is very much about driving revenue. So people look and go, yeah, you're a sales professional. Right here in Europe is like when somebody's selling, you're like, Oh God, you know, so it's, so it's, it's actually harder.

[00:52:49] But what we do in our industry though, is always qualified. Right? So, and once you're right about selling on the phone, but just managing relationships on the phone, we often say it to [00:53:00] our, to our team here, pick up the phone. He wants you to talk to him. She wants you to talk to her. Don't, don't send the email, pick up the phone.

[00:53:08] Ooh, So, so it's, it's very, um, generational stuff. It's, it's, it's, it's quite interesting. And I have one client, one of my biggest clients, he only picks up the phone. So my, every day I got a call and go, Oh, here we are.

[00:53:24] Stacy Havener: So it's, well, you know, it's funny. I have one of those clients too. And if he lived closer, I think he'd just show up, which would be fine.

[00:53:32] I mean, we'd have to sort of figure it out, but, um, but we do a communication builder with everyone on our team. I should probably do it with clients. Um, and it basically says, how do you like to. Information. And how do you like to receive information? This is really interesting. Okay. And so if you look at mine, mine is my preference is in person, which is super challenging when you run a virtual company with clients [00:54:00] all over the world.

[00:54:01] Right. But that is my preference. And so it's my preference to give information is also my preference to receive it. And, and so the, the challenge is, If everybody's preference to give information now is email or text, but the person on the other end is not matching that you got a big problem.

[00:54:25] Conor Hoey: It's true.

[00:54:26] And we are in this. Intergenerational thing where we have younger people come to the industry who have a way of doing things and let's just say the more experienced people in the industry who have a different wave of expectations and we're, we're not matching. Yeah,

[00:54:42] Stacy Havener: we're not matching. And I think there's more, we can have a whole episode on this because there's also another layer, which is even if that's the way you would prefer to communicate, that is also not the way.

[00:54:56] That true relationships are made and no matter [00:55:00] how much everyone wants it to be, it's just not the same as sitting down over a cup of coffee or a lunch. It's not the same. No,

[00:55:07] Conor Hoey: I know. But, but, you know, the world is different now because, you know, I even say this to my son, you know, you're not going to meet your mates this afternoon, your buddies or whatever.

[00:55:17] And he goes, I'm talking to them all the time, dad. What are you on about? And I go like, he goes, yeah, we've been chatting online or we've been playing a video game together online or whereas, you know, we were used to when I was younger, we were used to going out and actually meeting people face to face, you know, and now we're, we're sort of that generation is like the virtual meeting is, is the norm.

[00:55:40] I

[00:55:40] Stacy Havener: know, you know, it's a heartbreak for me. It's crazy. So I mean, we, if anyone needs us. Connor and Stacy were available for the phone. The course we can be adjunct professors for this. We've yeah,

[00:55:54] Conor Hoey: the phone, the phone calls in person. Yeah, we've got you. All right. Can we

[00:55:59] Stacy Havener: end with a couple of [00:56:00] questions that help us speaking of people get to know you a little better?

[00:56:05] They're not rapid fire, but they're quicker. Are you ready?

[00:56:08] Yeah.

[00:56:09] Stacy Havener: Okay. First one. What book inspires you? I mean, you're, you're across the street from one of my favorite libraries in all the world.

[00:56:17] Conor Hoey: I know. Yeah. Well, it's not the book of Kells. Uh, let me just think one second, what book inspires me? The collected works of Tintin.

[00:56:26] Stacy Havener: Tell me more.

[00:56:27] Conor Hoey: Yeah. Well, Tintin is, uh, um, I grew up with these books. They're comic based books, um, written by RJ, the, uh, the, the Belgian illustrator. And, uh, I, I mean, some of them are a little bit politically incorrect these days, but um, they are, they're just, they're sort of a soundtrack to my, if you want to say book track, a soundtrack to my, to my childhood.

[00:56:51] That would be, that would be the books that I, I all routinely go back to, but, but mostly I read, um, Uh, spy novels by people like David McCluskey or [00:57:00] McCarran.

[00:57:00] Stacy Havener: Okay, but I, I like the, I like the Tintin better. It's, it's like more to it. Yeah, that's so good. That's so good.

[00:57:08] Conor Hoey: Yeah. Yeah. If I had to do what they call a mastermind quiz subject, I am what's described as a Tintinologist.

[00:57:14] I can answer any question on Tintin. That's amazing.

[00:57:17] Stacy Havener: I'm so glad you shared that with us. Okay. We're going to switch from books to places. What place inspires

[00:57:23] Conor Hoey: you? Italy. Italy.

[00:57:24] Stacy Havener: Italy?

[00:57:25] Conor Hoey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well, I've, yeah, I spend a lot of time every year initially. So with family, we've all spent time there. So my grandfather lived in Italy and, uh, so I spent a lot of time, the best food, weather, history, football, people.

[00:57:43] Wine. You name it. Countryside.

[00:57:47] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:57:47] Conor Hoey: Yeah. That and Japan. That's

[00:57:50] Stacy Havener: so cool. And very different cultures.

[00:57:54] Conor Hoey: Yeah.

[00:57:55] Stacy Havener: Totally different. I love this. Okay. All right. Here we go. I mean, this takes on a whole [00:58:00] new, um, vibe for me and maybe for you, given your football ties and the fact that you are, you just won, you're walking out into the football stadium.

[00:58:11] Yeah.

[00:58:12] Stacy Havener: You and Wesley.

[00:58:14] Yeah.

[00:58:14] Stacy Havener: What is your walkout anthem? Your personal, your personal walkout on them. What do you want them to play?

[00:58:21] Conor Hoey: Yeah. It's a, it's a song called tonight we fly by the divine comedy.

[00:58:26] Stacy Havener: I'm okay. I have so much homework after this. And why is that? Is it more of the beat or is it the lyrics?

[00:58:31] Like what?

[00:58:32] Conor Hoey: It's the lyrics. It's got this great sort of slightly military, um, uh, beat. But the lyrics are just, yeah, that's sort of my, I will, I can say it's my walkout or my funeral anthem, you know, but it's, it's the piece of music that absolutely gives me goosebumps. Oh, that's

[00:58:47] Stacy Havener: so good. Okay. I can't wait to listen.

[00:58:49] Okay. What profession other than your own, would you like to attempt?

[00:58:55] Conor Hoey: Chef

[00:58:55] Stacy Havener: still,

[00:58:57] Conor Hoey: yeah, I cook a lot. I

[00:58:59] Stacy Havener: love [00:59:00] that.

[00:59:00] Conor Hoey: Yeah. I do. My wife runs craft classes a lot. So I do the lunches every weekend, two lunches a week for her, for the dollar attendees and stuff. So, but I, I, I, I like making sandwiches

[00:59:13] Stacy Havener: sandwich. Yours.

[00:59:14] That's your specialty.

[00:59:15] Conor Hoey: Yeah. I like, I, I, yeah, I have a bit of a, yeah. I'm an aficionado. Are we

[00:59:20] Stacy Havener: talking finger sandwiches?

[00:59:23] Conor Hoey: Oh, anything from firing up my smoker to making brisket, uh, whatever. It doesn't mean anything. Yeah. I know. I'd quite like to run a cafe or just be a chef, maybe a small chef, nothing serious.

[00:59:35] You know? Oh,

[00:59:36] Stacy Havener: this is so good. I mean, if, if we ever get together, we're going to have to go out for sandwiches. You're going to take me to your favorite, favorite sandwich.

[00:59:42] Conor Hoey: Definitely. All right. Now flip side,

[00:59:45] Stacy Havener: what profession would you not like to do?

[00:59:48] Conor Hoey: Um, I don't think I'd be a good painter and decorator. I just, I just don't, I just don't have the patience for it.

[00:59:56] You know, the, the fine tuning, the getting the details right. I [01:00:00] wouldn't be a good builder or painter decorator.

[01:00:02] Stacy Havener: No one's ever said that, but it's actually a really great answer.

[01:00:05] Conor Hoey: I just, I'm just not, my attention to detail is not good enough for it.

[01:00:09] Stacy Havener: Yeah. You'd tire of the process

[01:00:12] Conor Hoey: when my wife says, will you paint something at home?

[01:00:14] I'm going, Oh, Jesus. And I know something will go wrong. I'm just not, I just don't have that. The finish, you know, the perfect finish.

[01:00:23] Stacy Havener: Yeah. You're bored of it by that point. That's because now you've turned into an entrepreneur. Okay. And last, but certainly not least, and also not anything, um, that is happening soon.

[01:00:33] I hope, what do you want people to say about you after you've retired or left the industry.

[01:00:40] Conor Hoey: Well, that he was a good colleague, uh, and a friend and, um, you know, always did the right thing.

[01:00:48] Stacy Havener: The values. Yeah.

[01:00:50] Conor Hoey: That's it. Yeah. Yeah. It's not, it's not, I don't want to be known as the, yeah, he made millions or whatever, whatever with it.

[01:00:56] Can you people make money? There's no big deal about that, you [01:01:00] know, um, but it's, it's just about being, uh, as I say, a good colleague, good to work with and, and, you know, always try to do the right thing. So that's who could ask for more than that.

[01:01:09] Stacy Havener: I think there's lots of people who are saying that about you right now.

[01:01:13] Yeah. Thank you so much for being here.

[01:01:15] Conor Hoey: Great. That's been fun. Good.

[01:01:17] Stacy Havener: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. The information is not an offer, solicitation, or recommendation of any of the funds, services, or products, or to adopt any investment strategy.

[01:01:31] Investment values may fluctuate and past performance is not a guide to future performance. All opinions expressed by guests on the show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their firm. Manager's appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement by Stacey Havener or Havener Capital Partners.

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