Episode 25: From a $20B RIA to One of the World’s Largest Family Offices John Tennaro Still Has an Eye for Boutiques | The Power of Qualitative: Analysts Can Get the Data, Tell Them Stories
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Some say only small allocators invest in boutiques. Not true.
Today's guest, John Tennaro has worked for some of the largest RIAs and family offices in the world, managing double-digit billions and more. And guess what? He’s here to tell you the big guys still have an eye for boutiques.
Ready for a tall glass of hope - with a side of tough love advice, no chaser? Listen in as John shares:
His backstory and how an economics class sparked his passion for ESG
A deep dive into the mind of an allocator, revealing what factors drive their investment decisions
Why past performance isn't the whole story when allocators are on the hunt
What it takes for a fund manager to win his nod of approval when pitching a partnership
About John Tennaro:
John Tennaro, Certified Investment Management Analyst (CIMA) and Certified SRI Counselor (CSRIC) is an engaging professional with nearly 25 years of multidisciplinary experience that has focused on intentionality, authenticity, compassion, and "thinking outside the box". He has an extensive career and contribution to a range of financial services organizations and has led in the research and innovation of due diligence, investment management, asset allocation, and product development.
John lives in Annapolis, MD with his wife and two beloved dogs, where he is active within his community, including being a proud member of the United States Naval Academy Sponsor Program.
TRANSCRIPT
Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.
John Tennaro: [00:00:00] Once the trust is there and there feels like there's a partnership and I'm not a number or a dollar sign. The world is your oyster. And I think there are certain entities, whether we're talking family offices or ENFs or something like they don't want a million relationships in line items. So they're very likely to go back to who they already work with and say, what else can we do together?
Stacy Havener: That's my big takeaway from this is the collab. I think our industry sucks at collaborating, really, inter boutique. But what you hit on is even more important, which is with your allocators, with your clients, you can launch funds with them. If they want something and it fits into what you do, they will help you stand up a fund.
Stacy Havener: You don't have to go find a seeder. You don't have to go give up economics to some group. Just work with the people that you're already working with to see what else you can do. That is the definition of a true fan. That when you create something they are in, they [00:01:00] wanna know about it. Hey, my name is Stacey Haner.
Stacy Havener: I'm obsessed with startups, stories, and sales. Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the Toughest Boys Club, wall Street. I've raised over 8 billion that has led to 30 billion in follow-on assets for investment boutiques, you could say, against the odds. Yeah. understatement. I share stories of the people behind the portfolios while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes.
Stacy Havener: It's real talk here. Money, authenticity, growth, setbacks, sales, and marketing are all topics we discuss. Think of this as the capital raising class you wish you had in college mixed with happy hour. Pull up a seat, grab your notebook, and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn. This is the Billion Dollar Backstory Podcast.[00:02:00]
Stacy Havener: Today we're going to bust a myth wide open. There's a narrative out there that says the only allocators that invest in boutiques are small allocators. You know, the ones not managing very much money, the ones that maybe aren't that sophisticated. Wrong. Flat out wrong. Today's guest has worked for some of the largest RIAs and family offices in the world, managing double digit billions and more.
Stacy Havener: And guess what? They still allocate to specialists, boutiques, and startups. So don't drink the arsenic cocktail of rhetoric out there. Today we're serving you a glass of hope. Straight up, no chaser. Today's guest is one of my dear friends in this business, John Tenaro, who has been researching managers for over 20 years and still believes that a healthy ecosystem includes bigs and boutiques.
Stacy Havener: You definitely want your notebook for this [00:03:00] one, my friends. John is going to give you the real talk on how boutiques can win business from allocators. It's real talk, but here's the thing. It comes from the heart. John also really cares. Let's dive in. Welcome to the Billion Dollar Backstory podcast. I am here in the studio with my very dear friend, John Tenero.
Stacy Havener: John, thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited. We know what's cool about this podcast. I love that I get to introduce all my sort of podcast listening friends to my friends in the industry. And today is yet another day I get to do that.
John Tennaro: Well, I feel honored to be here. I have seen who you've had on this.
John Tennaro: Podcast, and I feel humbled by it at the same time, I feel like we've known each other for a long time. I'm glad you didn't say my old friend, cause I'm starting to feel old these days, but it's exciting and I think we both love to [00:04:00] share what we're thinking. And I think this is just an awesome venue to do so.
John Tennaro: So thank you to you and to your listeners. Yes, here
Stacy Havener: we go. So I always want to start with my favorite thing and that's stories. And particularly backstory and I find, especially in our space, what's so interesting about this is when I say to people, did you always know you wanted to be in the investment business, kind of doing what you're doing?
Stacy Havener: Sometimes the answer is yes, but a lot of times the answer is no. So kind of tell us your journey. To get where you are today, sitting there in Annapolis, Maryland with at least four or five pieces of Annapolis paraphernalia around you, did you always know you wanted to be in this space?
John Tennaro: Absolutely not.
John Tennaro: What you can't see on my wall is a picture I did in fifth grade, which was like, draw what you want to be when you get older, and it's like a stick figure of a football player, a basketball player, and a [00:05:00] soccer player. So clearly I had ambitions of being a professional athlete. I think by the time I turned 12, I realized that dream was not going to happen and probably came up with a few others, but in all seriousness, absolutely not.
John Tennaro: I don't even think a few years in to the investment world. I thought I was going to be an investment professional, but there was probably some inklings there because I thought about this. And when I was a kid. Both my grandfather's passed before I was born and my father's mother passed when I was super young.
John Tennaro: So I really had one grandparent and she kind of had to assume the role of four, especially as grandfather slash grandmother. So as a kid, I used to sit with her and watch New York Mets baseball games. That's what she wanted to do. She was a Dodgers fan. They moved to LA. She became a Mets fan and I would just sit with her and two things kind of came out of that.
John Tennaro: Watching very specific details about the game, which later translated into stats, every [00:06:00] morning, the next day I'd read that one page that was in the sports page that had every stat, the standings, the batting averages, field goal percentages, all that stuff. And it just stuck with me. I still remember records and scoring averages and things and it just stuck with me.
John Tennaro: So clearly there was some sort of statistical piece to it. The other nice thing was my grandmother. You know, would share parts of history with me during games, almost subconsciously, because I was always drawn to... Things in history that I just didn't know about. So she would share about an experience she had at a game, something that she looked at during the game.
John Tennaro: She would point out certain things during the game, not to teach or coach me, just kind of as an observer. And I just have always been a sponge and soaked it in. So I think. When I look back to there, that was probably an early sign of like something was there and then fast forward to college, like so many of us in my Gen X, we got there and it was like, I'm gonna go [00:07:00] into business, which is like the most broad thing in the world.
John Tennaro: And one of the classes I had my first semester freshman year was economics and at Fairfield University where I went to college. The economics path was in a separate school than the business school. So my advisor basically said, and who is an economics professor, if you want to get into economics, you actually have to switch schools and kind of, you'll have a different set of electives.
John Tennaro: And I did, and What I really liked about economics was I felt like business was all math and science and economics was that, but also art and history. And it had that kind of combination of the 2, because when you really think about economics, it isn't just math and science. There is a perspective of it, learning from the past, thinking about the future.
John Tennaro: And how you kind of envision things and kind of prepare for things and, and how important that is. And, and then the next semester, I took a class, which shows you how dated it is, but it was called [00:08:00] microeconomics and 3rd world countries, which we now refer to as emerging market countries. But in late 90s, it was called 3rd world countries.
John Tennaro: Boy, if we come such a long and short way, but it was such an interesting class because it taught me like. How different things were in other places, you know, this is really before globalization really kicked off. This was before there was really the Internet. So we didn't really have access to this. And I was learning about countries like Egypt and so forth.
John Tennaro: And, you know, that was my country that I was assigned to do this whole kind of report on and just being. Like amazed of like, they can't just turn on the faucet and water comes out and you know, like these simple things and then how it actually impacts their economy, their government, their society, their culture, and it just rang so like, huh.
John Tennaro: So those are two kind of big things. I mean, then there's There's always the little things, right? Like walking along a path at my parents house and seeing random trash on the side of the walkway and just being like, It took somebody just [00:09:00] as much effort to throw this out of their car than it was to just keep it in their car.
John Tennaro: And that's kind of where a little bit of their environmentalism started, or... You know, little things like that really weren't gearing me up to be an investment professional, but clearly was getting me to be an investment professional with kind of this alternative also kind of agenda, which I'm sure we'll talk about, but also gets into a little bit more of my sustainability background.
John Tennaro: One final thing I'll say is, you know, I actually have a pretty ordinary story. Like I don't have that kind of massive inflection point, but I think what's up here has always been abnormal or not the normal. I've always kind of challenged status quo, challenged authority, but not in like a negative way.
John Tennaro: But you know, my parents very quickly learned the easiest way to get me to clean my room. Wasn't saying, clean your room, John. It was finding some other way that was more incentivized. So I just, I've [00:10:00] always kind of believed in principle, believed that there isn't one side of the coin. There's many sides.
John Tennaro: And I think that has been always really applicable and helpful in the investment world. And especially what I've done for the majority of my career.
Stacy Havener: Great. I'm going to challenge you on one thing though, because I'm your friend. Everybody's story is way more interesting and way more magical than they think.
Stacy Havener: It seems ordinary to you because you lived it. And so I have like, one of my unique abilities is being able to sort of pull that story out of people. And I, and I want to come back to something that you said, but I want to set the stage a little bit too. So for people who don't know you and they'll learn more about you in the intro, but One of the places where we bonded was over boutique managers because it was a passion for you and obviously it's a passion for me.
Stacy Havener: So I want to talk about that, but there's a layer down for you in your story. And I think what's interesting for me is that you [00:11:00] mentioned sort of this purposeful investing and ESG and impact investing, which has always been important to you. Now, here we sit. You are. You fit a lot of the stereotype of this biz, right?
Stacy Havener: And yet, the part of the industry that really, really has always lit you up is something that is kind of in the way. Still very much in the fringe, so to speak, right? That sort of rebel part of the biz. And I wonder what that was like for you, because I know in places you've worked, you were kind of the lone voice, the lone champion for impact investing.
Stacy Havener: And I can imagine that that was very challenging to do when you were surrounded by other Primarily white male individuals who probably were just like, John, can you just conform to what we want to talk about? We don't want to talk about impact investing.
John Tennaro: Whew, [00:12:00] yeah, it's been an adventure. I mean, I think even going before the purposeful investing, it might have been my first investment manager meeting.
John Tennaro: And I think I was at NEPC and I won't name the investment manager, but during the meeting, they were telling us particular me, we're buying Enron and we're buying it and we're keep buying it and it's the right thing to do. And this is, you know, now we look back and realize what a terrible idea, but at the time it wasn't completely crate herring, but it, it had a bad stretch.
John Tennaro: And I just remember like having the courage to say like, What point do you pull out, you know, do you pull the chute kind of thing and I was basically explained that like, I'm too young to understand they're the professionals and you know, it was six months later that Enron, we all learned about Enron.
John Tennaro: That's not a story to kind of like, see, I was right there wrong, but it resonated with me of, it's so important to pause. For a minute and to really [00:13:00] kind of zoom out a little bit and say, like, what's happening here? Like, why are we just so willing and ready to accept what we hear as truth? And I think, you know, part of the middle age white guy in our industry is, you know, a lot of the ways we do things have just been passed down.
John Tennaro: It's how we've learned. And it just is kind of a rinse and repeat approach, right? Over and over and over again. Or as I like to say, kind of copy and paste. To my story about my parents and stuff, I've just never kind of zigged when everyone zigged, I was often zagging. And I think when you get into this idea of purposeful investing, which I think is we have a lot of debate over the lexicon and terminology in our industry, it's either an acronym or a cute phrase that serves as a marketing tool, but I like purposeful.
John Tennaro: My friend, Karen kind of got me starting to use it. But it's this idea that it doesn't belong to kind of one segment or demographic of people, it's, [00:14:00] everyone is probably searching for purpose, and if you're not, you probably should be. For me, it, I don't mind. I'm the devil and the advocate of Devil's Advocate.
John Tennaro: I will challenge. And push and say, like, I just don't agree, but then I'm the first one to get your back to lift you up to be your voice. If you feel like you don't have a voice. And I think that's always just been my thing. And I think there's a lot of people that aren't as fortunate as me. They haven't almost sometimes just walked into things that are pushing and pulling and really yelling and screaming to get certain things.
John Tennaro: It's just viewable. So I take it almost like it's not a privilege to do so, but it's like a responsibility. It's my accountability to say like, okay, you're looking at it from this perspective. You know, it's the whole phrase, right? There's more than one side of the coin. There's actually many sides of the coin.
John Tennaro: You have the two flat sides and then the whole circumference. So depending on where you're standing, there's millions of [00:15:00] perspectives. And that's the point is I'm not saying. This is right and you're wrong or you're right and they're wrong. It's more of like, let's just talk about it. And I think that's where areas of like, diversity of thought.
John Tennaro: In a room matters because 9 people saying yes to 1 person results in 1 thing. And I think, you know, for me with ESG and impact investing and purposeful, it's not saying it's just this. It's like this. And it's about this enhancement and. I guess I'll end with saying this too, like, if any of us pauses right now, whether they go to their iPhone and look at the news or they put on the TV or look at the newspaper, go on the internet, can any of us stand here today and honestly say like, the world's in a great place, like, everything's just firing, it all pisses, of course not.
John Tennaro: And some of us would argue that it's been deteriorating. Some of that, to me, seems to happen because we just keep rinsing and repeating. And we don't stop, pause, and say, we need to pivot and go into a different [00:16:00] path. And it's been challenging, but I, I think it's a, it's probably a lot easier for me to stand up as maybe a white male in a room and, and scream.
John Tennaro: than it is for somebody else who maybe feels like they don't have that voice or that platform to stand on. So I don't do it necessarily for those people, but I want to stand on their shoulders and that kind of idea.
Stacy Havener: And in doing that, you're actually letting them stand on yours because you said something really powerful there that I know anybody who feels underrepresented, I'm raising my hand, which you can't see if you're listening to audio in the investment industry.
Stacy Havener: You know, you're being a champion for people that need that. And that's, like I said, how we bonded over boutique. So let's talk about that a little bit, because one of the things I always loved in talking with you or in manager meetings we've been in is, you know, you ask really tough, smart questions, but you also help the managers you're meeting [00:17:00] with, and I want to talk about that because so many boutiques struggle.
Stacy Havener: to basically succeed, survive. I mean, I don't know, like exist. And I want them to learn from somebody who has been in the seat at a consultant, at a multifamily office, at a single family office who loves boutiques and can give this advice with peace and love, as I always like to say, which is, you know, let's talk about some of the things that boutiques can do better.
Stacy Havener: And I think. Better was an interesting word choice I didn't intend there, because I want to talk about what makes an investment manager different. How an investment manager would say, like, if you said, tell me what makes you different to a manager in a meeting, what would they typically say versus what would you typically.
Stacy Havener: want them to be talking about?
John Tennaro: It's a great question, and yes, let's just acknowledge, like, we both do have a passion for boutiques, but that isn't to suggest that that [00:18:00] is, we're blind to other firms. I think you and I look for quality, not necessarily quantity, but quality can come in many shapes and sizes.
John Tennaro: I think different is super important. Different why, not different what, and different how, and that's my two questions. Most questions seem to be asked in our industry is the what and not the why and the how, and the why is so important, right? Like, why are you being different? I think for a lot of firms, different comes across as not as different as they think, right?
John Tennaro: Our portfolio is a little bit more concentrated, or we have a couple more people doing this, or we have this small kind of tweak that does that. And it sounds different. Like you said, our backstories, we think are, but they are unique and they are different. And I think that's the point right there is like, how have you personalized it?
John Tennaro: For me, firms that understand their identity, that have conviction in their identity, they trust their process, they have faith in their process, they have faith in what they're doing, then it starts to come [00:19:00] out and it starts to look differently because then they're starting to say things maybe I haven't heard before, or are willing to kind of perceive things in a different way.
John Tennaro: We've been taught this is how investment returns are supposed to be, this is how we're supposed to look at risk and volatility, this is how we look at allocation and the same people that kind of challenge that and say, well, you know, this is how we think about it. And we're okay with being playing outside the box a little bit, because we think that is, is our opportunity.
John Tennaro: Cause let's be honest, you know, this better than any of us. Like there's a lot of asset managers out there, right. More than we would ever need for everybody. So to kind of get in the game and be like, I want to be like them or. I'm not really sure who I want to be. You're probably already lost, right? Like you're not going to kind of stand out.
John Tennaro: And as a boutique, it's, you're already kind of fighting with one arm behind your back because you don't have massive resources, you don't have the ability to shout and have people hear you. You have to almost [00:20:00] be intentionally, which is a word I will use over and over again, intentionally, you know, unique and, and realize that you're not trying to be.
John Tennaro: Everything to everyone, you're doing what you do, and you're okay with the fact that might be one out of every 20 prospects, one of every 51 of every 100. And I know that's a risk, right? Like, we're in a game where a um, does matter. But at what cost? And at what extent are you doing it? So I think. For me, I look for firms that are different, not on what they can show me in a brochure, or a fact sheet, or a presentation, or a performance return, but what they can share with me, and I know we'll probably talk a little bit more about that, but it is, it is that more human aspect that I think differentiates firms and, and again, I think boutiques have to be willing to do.
John Tennaro: Have reasonable and rational expectations and the answer might at the end of the day be [00:21:00] this isn't going to happen. Or maybe we need to collaborate with another small firm and being 1 firm because if there's 15, 000 firms out there, you know, the mom and pop investors aren't going to hear of 99 percent of them.
John Tennaro: And the financial advisors are only going to focus on 10 percent of them. You never get to somebody who gets to 100 percent of them. So I think. There isn't a perfect recipe to stand out, but I think you can start to sense when you're hearing something different. And maybe that's looking in different asset classes, different types of ways of doing things.
John Tennaro: And that isn't super popular. Like we don't need another large cap strategy, to be honest, there's, there's an unlimited amount. So maybe like, if you're a boutique, you're like, that's not our starting point. Or maybe that's just not our opportunity set because we're not only going against other boutiques who've already been here.
John Tennaro: But the bigger firms and then the passive firms, and it's just like, you have to be honest with yourself and say, like, where's the opportunity, but I think [00:22:00] refreshing and fresh kind of hearing things for somebody who's been doing this for almost 25 years. Like, it doesn't happen often, but when it does, I get the adrenaline pumps and the passion kind of reenters the discussion and it's exciting for me.
John Tennaro: So, you know, I could go on and on about this and I'm sure we'll talk more, but I think that's kind of initial thoughts.
Stacy Havener: We'll be back in a moment after a word from our premier brand partner, Ultimis Fund Solutions.
John Tennaro: Since our founding in 1989, we believe that alternative investments are integral part of client portfolios. Unfortunately, delivering high quality hedge funds and private market exposures has always been a challenge for the wealth management industry. These type of alternative investments introduce unique challenges related to taxes, qualifications, paperwork, and reporting.
John Tennaro: As a result, high net worth investors tend to be significantly under allocated to both hedge funds [00:23:00] and private markets relative to institutional
Stacy Havener: investors. That's Stephanie Lang, Chief Investment Officer from Homeric Berg, an 11 billion RIA headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, that serves over 2, 700 clients in 46 states.
Stacy Havener: You can tell they believe in helping high net worth clients access hedge funds and other alternative investments. They're equally as passionate about broadening that access for all their clients, not just qualified purchasers or a select group of accredited investors. Meet Nick Darsh from Ultimis with some backstory.
Stacy Havener: Hall McBurg
John Tennaro: created a 3C1 fund in January 1999 to provide their high net worth and institutional investors with ready access to a diversified portfolio of hedge funds. As interest in the fund grew, And the constraint of the hundred investor rule loomed, HB began exploring ways to continue expanding the investor pool [00:24:00] without negatively affecting existing shareholders.
Stacy Havener: We'll hear more about the creative fund conversion work that made it possible later in the show. Now back to the program.
Stacy Havener: So many things there resonate with me and what I really want listeners. To hone in on here is specialization and we really have to work with our clients on this sometimes because they break out of big firms. And what does a big firm have every flavor of everything, right? So when they break out, they think, well, okay, I can't have every flavor of everything, but I should have lots of flavors as many as I can have anyway.
Stacy Havener: And so they come out of the gates. It's a small team, talented team. Okay. And instead of picking one thing, they're like, well, one thing, what if that's not right? Let's pick like three or four things. [00:25:00] And to me, having been in meetings with people like you, I'm like, but you're just mucking it up. Pick the one thing you're really good at.
Stacy Havener: And is it fair for me to say, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but let's say I'm a boutique and I come to you and I say, I'm really talented at small cap value. Like I'm really, really good at that. Right? Like that's my jam. Micro and small. Like I just work right, right here. This is the strategy I have, and you love it.
Stacy Havener: You're like, I'm vibing, I need that, that's great. But there's something that maybe you're interested in exploring. Wouldn't you ask me? Wouldn't you say, oh, like, I know you have that, do you How far will you let the names run up? Like, am I gonna catch some mid cap in there, or is this really gonna just be Have you ever run a strategy where you let it run a little bit farther?
Stacy Havener: Cause we don't wanna have to sell you when it hits you know, billion and a half market cap and we have to find somebody to take mid cap. We'd rather have our small cap manager run a little and maybe our large cap manager come down and market cap, whatever. I'm making it up. [00:26:00] Point being, I want boutiques to understand that allocators We'll figure it out with you.
Stacy Havener: You don't have to come to them with a menu of 18 different ways that you can help them. Just come with what you're good at, and let the conversation go from there, and be open to the things that they might want to explore
John Tennaro: with you. Yeah, I mean, I always Reference what you just described as, I think people, asset owners and asset allocators want partnerships, not transactional relationships.
John Tennaro: And I think too often we feel like we're a transactional relationship. It's the pitch and it's you're selling up front our investment returns and our reputation and all these flashy things. And I don't even know your last name and I don't even know who you are. So there's also that aspect, but a partnership means like we're hand in hand to your point, we're going to walk forward together.
John Tennaro: And if all of a sudden I'm like, you're a kick ass small cap manager. We [00:27:00] have a need for something more mid cap, like, would you ever consider seeding a new strategy with us and others for me? Like, it's an open dialogue because it's a partnership versus it's a here's some money go invest it and I'll talk to you at the end of the year every each year kind of thing.
John Tennaro: I think that's such an important aspect that successful boutiques understand. Also, that partnership is like dating. If on the first date, you're proposing to me, I'm running, right? Versus like, let's get to know each other, and that might be it. You know, it's just like, hey, I want to get to know you. And if you need more...
John Tennaro: I'm gonna ask for it, you know, the amount of managers are like, well, you can give me this and this and this and this and I'm like, if I need it, I will ask I have a mouth. And if you know me well, I am not short on words. So like, I'll ask for it. But when you throw it at me, it just feels like you're trying to throw the whole kitchen sink at me and Then I kind of get that feeling of uneasiness of like, why is so [00:28:00] much being thrown at me?
John Tennaro: Like, what am I missing? And it just raises red flags, to be honest, versus like, I'm glad you got to know me. We were able to share our history of our firm, why we started this firm, why we're doing what we're doing. The actual, I don't want to hear your like, Slogan. We're the best because we're better than the rest.
John Tennaro: Tell me about your culture. Details. What makes, why do people want to come, why did you come to work here? Why are you still working here? What's going to keep you working here? You know, again, I know we're getting into some of the qualitative stuff, but it's like, that is authenticity, that's intentionality, but that's also a personal partnership that The door can open wider, but you have to knock on the door and get them to even open the door, right?
John Tennaro: So I think that's such an important, yet probably underappreciated, and I know, you know, I won't speak for you, but like, that's what you've been doing for long before even probably we met, like, it's been your thing of like, I mean, that's part of this whole story aspect [00:29:00] is like, part of the story is like, now we like, trust each other, because one final thing I'll say, because I'm over talking again, but like, There's a lack of trust in this industry from the investor standpoint, from an allocator standpoint, from an asset manager standpoint, there's just like a cycle of kind of who do we trust?
John Tennaro: How do we trust? And again, building trust doesn't happen overnight. It's earned and it's earned over time. And I think once the trust is there and there feels like there's a partnership and I'm not a number or a dollar sign, the world is your oyster. And I think there are certain entities, whether we're talking family offices or ENFs or something like They don't want a million relationships in line items, so they're very likely to go back to who they already work with and say, what else can we do together?
Stacy Havener: That's my big takeaway from this is the collab. I think our industry sucks at collaborating, really inter boutique. But what you hit on is even more important, which is with [00:30:00] your allocators, with your clients, you can launch funds with them. If they want something and it fits into what you do, they will help you stand up a fund.
Stacy Havener: You don't have to go find a seeder. You don't have to go give up economics to some group. Just work with the people that you're already working with to see what else you can do. That is the definition of a true fan. That when you create something, they are in, they want to know
John Tennaro: about it. And you know what else is an added benefit to all of that, which I think is If you were ever to ask me, like, what is one, another thing that I would advise boutiques to do?
John Tennaro: I think when you've built trust, you've built a partnership, you've built this collaboration with your allocators and asset owners. One of the things I think that managers don't do enough of is challenge back to demand more. Why didn't we get this? Don't tell me because, like, here's a top line reason or the investment committee voted again.
John Tennaro: Really, like, I want to know because this is what will [00:31:00] help me so that I can get better. And if you have that partnership and that trust, you're going to have more confidence to do so. Versus if I like, don't really know you, you're going to have this fear of like, well, now I burned that bridge and I'm never going to get back in.
John Tennaro: But as an allocator, like I, I want to be challenged. And I don't think we do, because I think a lot of decisions are made. Often not for the right reasons and the manager needs to know that so that they're not making these kind of false assumptions of like, well, we didn't get it because X, Y, Z and firm is flash here and they have more resources or we didn't get it because we weren't enough of it.
John Tennaro: Like, don't guess, go find out why and demand and say, it's worth burning part of the bridge to find that answer because now we can either adapt to these. Feedback or realize that was an opportunity we never wanted in the first place and good riddance kind of thing, but if you're having this fake relationship or this just insincere relationship, I think it would be [00:32:00] hard to kind of say, well, why, well, why keep going?
John Tennaro: Well, why? Well, why? Well, why? So I think that's just another thing that my world needs to have happened to us because we've gotten very comfortable in our ways and very almost standoffish of like, this is the decision. Well, that doesn't help. Like, we should also want to be provided. And I know there's some discretion and there's some stuff that we can't share, but get to that line.
John Tennaro: Don't guess where the line is.
Stacy Havener: Yeah, that's so good. And let's go back to the trust thing, because you said something that I think about a lot, and that is, are you hiring, are you buying a fund, which is what everybody thinks, or are you hiring a human, which is what every business is actually about. And the trust piece has to be between people.
Stacy Havener: And that goes to the qualitative due diligence piece. If you start with the people behind the portfolios, the people behind the [00:33:00] performance, everything that we're, you know, that I'm about and this podcast is about, then you can establish the trust. Then, Whether you win or lose the allocation, if I am now your friend and I'm that small cap value manager and I don't get the deal, then when I call you and say, John, like what happened?
Stacy Havener: Like I want to get better. Can you tell me what I need to work on? You are so much more apt to tell me because it's me and we're friends now. Then I'm just some logo on a pitch book that like came across your desk and fund managers just don't want to believe that's true. That the qualitative is as important as the quantitative, even though allocators keep saying it, it is true.
Stacy Havener: Studies show it's true. So how do you respond to that? Is it, I mean, let's just say it again, seven
John Tennaro: times to hear it once. It's certainly true to play the devil's advocate at that point, I get where there's some hesitation to that belief because you know what, we've all experienced over the last 20 [00:34:00] years, the massive rise in passive investing, which does, for the most part, lack a lot of human aspect to it, it is, we've created a methodology and it's copy and paste and you plug it in and it happens, but you almost have to kind of Segment that off to the side and say, but that that's not really our competition that's over here.
John Tennaro: Somebody who wants that has made it very clear. That's what they want. But for those that are saying, either I want to have a core satellite, I want to balance something out or like, I do want something more active. It is the humans because I mean, if I was a star portfolio manager, and you were invested in me and I told you I'm leaving.
John Tennaro: You'd probably be like, I might be moving my money. Not so why are you moving the money? Because the human is leaving, not anything else. So it clearly has to deal with the human, but I. I think we've become obsessed with, you know, it's the old phrase, right? Past performance doesn't guarantee future results yet.
John Tennaro: We make decisions [00:35:00] based on what has already happened. And unless we have a DeLorean and go back into time and reinvest five years ago and get that kind of run up. Yes. Past performance can help us potentially, but I need to believe that. Those who are driving the car are more important than sometimes the wheels on the car, whether we're going to get in an accident, whether we're going to get there in time, so forth and so on.
John Tennaro: So, yes, and again, to your point, the relationship piece, I can have with a human, I can't have with a computer or a button, as much as chat, GPT, and all these AI is exciting. They're not human and the conversation is going to be different. So I think it's super important. It doesn't mean you ignore the quantitative stuff and it doesn't mean we do.
John Tennaro: And again, I'll be honest. There are a lot of me's that that is where decisions are being made. I see it all the time where it's like, well, the correlation's too high. And I'm like. But you're using don't let data drive the decision. So part of it is back to what we [00:36:00] were just saying before, like, except the fact that there's a human piece to it, but then also challenge us that aren't focusing enough or prioritizing that as well, because we're often making decisions on 5 year correlations or.
John Tennaro: Here's the standard deviation the last 10 years and I'm like, but what happened during the last 10 years? Is that gonna happen the next 10 years? So I want to drive. I don't want an autonomous driver. That's what matters to me. And I think that's what matters to people that are at your door. If they're not at your door, then maybe you just kind of move aside and and you know, hopefully at some point maybe they come find you but It's such an important aspect and it makes everything else have a lot more clarity.
John Tennaro: You know, it's, it's building blocks, right? So this is who we are. This is why we were founded. This is why we got into this. This is why we have the products that we have. These are the type of people we do. This is some of the stuff that we're doing outside of investing. Here's how we contribute to our community.
John Tennaro: Here's how we collaborate with other managers. [00:37:00] Here's some of the groups that we're participated in. You build all this up and then at the top is your quantitative piece. And that's when you're like, bam. Oh, and by the way, we're kicking ass. Um, and we're doing really good at this now. I feel like, yeah, it all goes together.
John Tennaro: Versus if I came up to you, Stacy and was like on the smartest man alive. You'd be like, based on what? But if I had, I have a PhD in this, and I'm a neuroscience, and like, built up to it, then you'd be like Well, maybe, maybe it's worth taking a closer look at. And I think the quantitative is a little bit of just, it's a statement, but it has not a lot of support and you need that support piece.
Stacy Havener: So if I'm a manager taking this all in, I guess what I would want them to walk away with here is, it's not qualitative or quantitative. It's both. It's an and, not an or. Just like it's. big and boutique. It can be passive and active. There's room for everything. So it's qualitative [00:38:00] and quantitative, but qualitative first, then back it up with the data.
Stacy Havener: Like you'll get to the data. You will get there. And by the way, it is assumed table stakes that you're good at what you do. If you stink, why are you doing that? How are you still doing
John Tennaro: this? Right. Or guess what? The one thing that us analysts and allocators have access to is the quantitative stuff. You know, what we don't easily have access to is the qualitative stuff.
John Tennaro: So that's the missing piece that I, I can, there's very few that don't have some sort of machinery or resource that says here's attribution, here's performance returns, here's this and that you even have it on your own website. So fact sheets and stuff like that. I can get that before a meeting. If I haven't, I'm not doing my job.
John Tennaro: It's that other stuff that I can't find. And even if I read, you know, your mission statement [00:39:00] online and your philosophy, I want it to be alive. And that's your job is to make it alive so that it speaks to me and, and that it maybe resonates with me. And I say, yeah, we think alike, you know, now I can kind of start to work on your behalf.
Stacy Havener: That's my favorite part so far because I, I really think managers don't understand that. The allocators and the analysts can get the data. You're not telling them anything new when you take your fact sheet and walk them through all the data. Like that's a waste of time. Don't do it. So we've talked a lot about how the boutiques and the asset managers can show up.
Stacy Havener: Differently, more effectively, et cetera. Since you are the devil and devil's advocate, I want to challenge you and say, okay, well, what is the allocator's role here? What is the allocator's role in the ecosystem? If the boutiques If we agree that the ecosystem is bigs and boutiques and [00:40:00] passive and active and you need all of the constituents in order to make the world a great place, then what's the allocator's role and how can they do better in giving boutiques a chance?
Stacy Havener: Because I feel that's become even more and more challenging for boutiques and specialists.
John Tennaro: That is a billion dollar question, and it's a challenging answer because it really starts to peel back the onion on some hard truths that are out there, which is also there are often. Too many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to decision making, you have frontline analysts, you have their superiors, you have investment committees, you have all these kind of entities that are involved in the decision making, and some are so far removed from the active part of the process that the decision is at the end of the day being made kind of on Thank you.
John Tennaro: Thanks for listening. Fables and untruths [00:41:00] and just a lack of kind of information. So there isn't necessarily a perfect solution to that. Other than it's part of the allocators job to push harder into to maybe reach out to the other parts of their ecosystem decision making tree earlier on in the process and get them along that journey.
John Tennaro: If you know you have all these different bodies that are going to be involved in the decision, waiting to the end is too late. And that's another area where you can collaborate with boutiques, because here's the beauty of boutiques, they're talking to a lot of people too, and maybe they can say something like, Hey!
John Tennaro: We found this effective with this type of client. Here's an idea for you. Because again, once that bond is created, we should be working together and it's not. And again, you brought it up earlier where I'm kind of the thorn sometimes in the side of, in a room. And, and frequently, I mean, especially when it's been with ESG, where I'm like, I've been doing this for a long time.
John Tennaro: Most of the people I'm trying to kind of convince haven't done it for five [00:42:00] minutes. It's a very frustrating aspect. And either you get Roll the eyes, uh, you know, let's see what's going on in my like, just a lack of paying attention, but that's our job in part to demand the audience to pay attention to put.
John Tennaro: Chips on the table to push hard. And again, if you don't same thing, I've said to boutiques, if you don't get the answer, you like push back. Same thing for us with other decision makers. I think that's really important. And I think that's why I brought up earlier. Also challenging allocators because. I don't know how many, you know, a lot of them are repeating the steps that they learned 20 years ago.
John Tennaro: And those are the same steps that somebody else learned 20 years earlier. And it's like, you know, the old E. F. Hutton commercial or Charles Schwab, which is like, this is the way we've always done it. And it's like, Okay, but, you know, this isn't 1965 anymore, like, holy crap, the market has changed dramatically.
John Tennaro: There are so many more investors, so many different ways to invest, so many different types of investments, like, the way we did things isn't the way [00:43:00] we should still be doing things. There are certain core principles, perhaps, or pillars. But if we haven't changed our style, if we haven't evolved as the markets have evolved, as investments have evolved, as just the whole.
John Tennaro: ecosystem is involved, we need to take a real look in the mirror and be like, what are we doing and why are we doing this? Are we just kind of going through the motions? So I playing devil's advocate would be the first to critique my field because I do think we're not doing enough either. I think we can have different perceptions of risk.
John Tennaro: We often look at risk as. Safe or not safe and for me, I look at risk is ignoring an opportunity or pursuing an opportunity. Like, risk is always like, well, this is stable. This is where everybody else is. This is big. It can't fail. I look at risk also as here's a great opportunity that we're ignoring because we're just.
John Tennaro: Uncomfortable with, with making the tough decision, but that's why clients are paying us. That's, that's why there's money in this industry is, is to [00:44:00] use our intuition, to use our gut, to use our heart, not just our mind, and to make some tough decisions and you're not going to get them all right. Investment managers, if they bet 50 percent are in the hall of fame.
John Tennaro: If we get it right, 50 percent we're in the hall of fame. It, I think the expectation is we're not perfect, but don't let perfect get in the way of good enough or pretty damn good. So I think that's important. But I, I think. It's starting to change. I feel like there's a little bit of a shift and some of that might be due to some of the investing stuff.
John Tennaro: You know, it's just created a little bit of disruption, a little bit of chaos thematic investing has helped as well because it's requiring. a different way to look at things. I, I'm often insulted when people jump into the purposeful investing, the ESG investing space and just think it's a light switch that they can turn on and start doing.
John Tennaro: That's, that's an insult to a lot of firms and a lot of people who've been doing it for a long time and have literally had to work hard and realize that every day they're learning something new and having to apply something [00:45:00] new. But that essence of like the game is never over. I've been doing due diligence for almost 25 years and I learned something new all the time.
John Tennaro: So being modest, having humility, being vulnerable, realizing there's always something new, some new way to look at it, if you're a allocator and you're, you're also not doing that, you're not trying to still learn and be a sponge. I don't care if you've done it for 50 years, then you're part of the problem, not the solution.
Stacy Havener: We'll be back in a moment after a word from our premier brand partner, Ultimis Fund Solutions.
John Tennaro: When we first launched our internal fund to funds as a limited partnership, it was a great option for us to be able to provide a hundred of our accredited and qualified purchaser clients with access to a diversified portfolio of hedge fund strategies. However, Fast forward to 2016, our firm had grown to manage over 4 billion and serve over a thousand clients of various sizes, accreditations, and [00:46:00] tax situations.
John Tennaro: We still firmly believe that high quality hedge fund exposure is important to client portfolios. It provides stability, To client portfolios and generates a return stream that was not available in public and equity and fixed income markets. Unfortunately, the 3C1 structure with its slot limitations, high minimums, and K1 reporting was no longer ideal solution for a growing and complex client base.
John Tennaro: We looked at various alternative options with third party hedge fund managers, liquid hedge mutual funds, but also discovered that we had an opportunity to register our fund with the SEC, preserve its extensive track record, and solve all of the issues that the 3C1 structure was creating for our business and clients.
John Tennaro: That's when we teamed up with Ultimis to begin the process of registering our legacy fund with the SEC and converting it to a tender offer fund.
Stacy Havener: We'll hear [00:47:00] more later in the show. Now, back to the program.
Stacy Havener: That is so well said. And I loved your take on risk there, because that was something I wanted to talk about. But I think, I think I love the answer. It's not what I would have thought we'd been talking about, which is there is a risk in just doing the same thing over and over and over again. And being the, like, the yes for the same type of managers, the same type of thinking, the same profile, because you've done it before and there's no business risk in it, you just keep doing it.
Stacy Havener: That to me, like, I don't think fund managers really understand how real business risk is. to an allocator. If their clients get angry and leave, they're not going to do that to their business for you, for you, the fund manager, for your fund. No way. If that [00:48:00] becomes a business risk for them, they're out. And it makes sense.
Stacy Havener: It is a business, but fund managers don't think about that. They don't think about the seat that the allocator, the whole firm is in with their clients. That's very, very real to them.
John Tennaro: Yeah, and we almost have the role of like private investigator, right? If it was so easy to find that kind of hidden gem or that needle in a haystack, we would just do it.
John Tennaro: But we outsource all this. Our industry is, is all about outsourcing, right? It's, I have 10. I can either invest it myself or I put it into the system and it gets outsourced into many different pieces. So, like, if I need to find out somebody, something about somebody, you hire a PI and they go do it. But they're supposed to uncover something that isn't in front of their eyes.
John Tennaro: And I look at the same thing with kind of investing. I think there's a risk to just saying, here's... XYZ fund that you've heard of that you see commercials [00:49:00] and billboards for. It's not saying there's something wrong with that, but like, I don't know a lot of clients that are going to be like, Ooh, thanks for giving me a name.
John Tennaro: I've already heard of like, what is your value add in this then? Like, why am I paying you? So there's a risk from an allocator standpoint to rinse and repeat, which I know I'm rinsing and repeating as a phrase, but it's like. You have to have a little bit of that, right? You know, it's balancing that risk of let me give you something that is outside the box and, and is different and might make you at first uncomfortable, but let's talk through it and let's see why this might actually be that diamond in the rough or that needle in the haystack.
John Tennaro: I want
Stacy Havener: to transition to Proust's questionnaire because I know actually speaking of uncomfortable that you're slightly uncomfortable with these questions, which is great news. It'll make it extra fun. But before we do, one other question I have for you is, you've actually been in a lot of different types.
Stacy Havener: of firms as an allocator. So you worked for a big consulting firm. You [00:50:00] work for a very large kind of multifamily office. Now you work for a single family office. And I'm just curious your perspective. Like we often advise boutiques, like if you're a breakaway from a very large firm, the place that you want to go to first is kind of who had the most Money with you at the big when he left.
Stacy Havener: So you think I'm a boutique I'm gonna call any PC or one of the consultants and it's like they can't even They can't even take a flyer on you now and we typically say, you know those aren't early adopters early adopters are more single family office or Independent RIAs who can make their own decisions.
Stacy Havener: Is that still true? Like, have you found that in your own journey that the family offices and independent firms have more flexibility to collab and to support boutiques or to have more unconventional thinking?
John Tennaro: I think to a certain extent, yes, but I still think it probably boils down to let's not paint everything with a broad stroke and [00:51:00] realize, like, every situation should be a blank canvas that you're, you know, Bob Rossing, you're, you're slowly adding the little tree and the little cabin and right, all that stuff, like Yeah.
John Tennaro: Yeah, for the most part, there's some trends that exist for a reason, just like there are stereotypes at risk, there's got to be a little bit of truth to it, but yeah, I think more of what you're kind of getting to is like, if it feels natural or immediate to go that way, again, pause, because is that just because it seems easy and it's the kind of quickest way to get from point A to B, and maybe it makes more sense to look at the type of entities that Have demonstrated a history just because of who they are to kind of veer off kind of the traditional course.
John Tennaro: And yeah, you can always send out a fly. If you worked at a big firm who worked with a big consulting firm and you have a good relationship and you want to say, hey, you know, I've started my own thing. Yeah. You know, a lot of those. Firms have these kind of emerging manager kind of [00:52:00] programs and platforms, and maybe there's an opportunity there, but that, you know, you can't throw a Hail Mary.
John Tennaro: That's kind of a Hail Mary. Like, that can't be your whole offensive plan. First and 10 from the 20, and we're throwing a Hail Mary on the first play. Like, That's your whole game plan. No, your, your game plan has got to be like, let's look at, yeah, I think RIAs, Dowmonton foundations, those just more, if you're a boutique, look at boutique firms,
Stacy Havener: I mean, it seems so simple, but yet it's not.
Stacy Havener: And so I've seen managers literally come to me and be like, well, I was at this big firm, this client had a billion dollars with us. So in my. Business plan here. I've got them earmarked for 200 million and it's like, Oh, what's your AUM right now? They're like 15 million and you're like, well, that's not going to happen Anytime soon and that's where it's like you're just setting yourself up to disappoint your own Team yourself because you're [00:53:00] expect and you don't have to your expectations are you're just coming from the wrong place That's just not real That's not really going to happen.
John Tennaro: And think about it. If the large asset manager loses a 200 million allocation, they can almost do this. If a boutique loses 200 million, you're on life support. So go find the stickier asset places, right? Where maybe it is singles and doubles. It's the same phrase we use with how you invest like singles and doubles.
John Tennaro: Can lead to a hall of fame career and I know I've overused my sports analogy allocation for the day But the truth of the matter is is like you're trying to build on singles and doubles find firms that kind of allocate in singles And doubles and then you'll get bigger and even though I hate a lot of the Kind of industry trademark standards of three years and a hundred million dollars because I'm like that ignores possibility and potential that aspect still exist in some minds and it might take a while before people are willing to kind of at [00:54:00] least make those benchmarks less visible or less applicable, but because they still are, to your point, you have 15 million, you're going for 200 million allocation like I mean, there are a lot of firms that have risk policies that like we can't be more than 10 or 15%, then that's just not your way.
John Tennaro: So the fastest way from point A to B is often the riskiest versus the best. So I think you brought up a great point that is super important to just be mindful of. And it does mean working harder, rolling up your sleeves, having some late nights and sweating. But like, isn't that why you're in this?
John Tennaro: Industry is, is to make it work like otherwise, you know, there are many other professions out there. And I know that's a, that's a hard truth, but the reality is, is it's not for everyone. And I seen a lot where it's not, but it's, it's important to have that reflection time in the mirror and not just point out the window and be like, we're going to do it.
John Tennaro: Like they did it. That's right.
Stacy Havener: Boutiques, find boutiques. They get each other. I love that. That's such an awesome [00:55:00] point that you drove home. Thank you, John. All right. So now, without further ado, you better have a sip of your coffee, my friend. Pruse questionnaire. Here we go. You're on the hot seat. Okay. What book inspires
John Tennaro: you?
John Tennaro: Okay. Here's a recurring theme. There's never a quick answer. Cause I'm an avid reader. So like, So many books have meant a lot, but I, I can only narrow it down to two books. The first one is psychology of investing. And I read this early two thousands and it was my first introduction into like behavioral investing.
John Tennaro: Like the aspects of it's not just quantitative. It is qualitative. The whole theory of all investors are rational and all those kinds of things. Like it broke down a lot of barriers and got me to think as investors, as humans, not as data points. And when I read that 20 years ago, it, and it's a tiny little book that's had seven, eight different editions, but it was big and then kind of a fun.
John Tennaro: But I usually read a lot of nonfiction. I love to read about [00:56:00] Truman and Washington and all them, but a book called Ghost Wave, which is the story of, there's a place called Cortez Bank off of the coast of California, where it's like this mountain in the middle of the Pacific ocean, that big wave surfers many years ago went to go find because it's like this a hundred foot wave and I'm a.
John Tennaro: Passionate big wave surfer fan. I'm a terrified of heights. I don't like flying. I don't think I could ever actually do it. But I love surfing. It's been in my blood. I think there's a peace and tranquility about surfers. And I love this because it's this whole story of like capsized ships that used to go through like this whole history of this wave.
John Tennaro: And then the story of these guys that are like, Crazy, right? You have to be crazy to surf a hundred foot wave, but it's a lot of what we've talked about today, which is like this pursuit of what's in here and using a little bit of what's down here in your gut to do it in this, this kind of perseverance to find it.
John Tennaro: And then just this super reward of finding this, like in the middle of the [00:57:00] ocean. So go, it's called ghost wave. And it just, it resonates with me on so many different factions, and it just makes you feel alive. So, James Lipton would have already kicked me off the stage for, for my elongated answer, but it's you, it's you, not him.
John Tennaro: Yes,
Stacy Havener: it's in, we're inspired by him, but we, we make it our own. Okay, so, right? Speaking of inspiring, we're going to stay in that category. What place inspires you? What's your happy place? The
John Tennaro: inspiring place is probably Chapel Hill, North Carolina. I am a lifelong... UNC fan. I did not go there, but I have been since it's the first team I started rooting for at like four and every time I go there, which is as often as I can, you see me like levitated.
John Tennaro: I'm almost floating when I'm on campus, when I'm walking along Franklin Street. So it's a place that just makes me feel alive. But my happy, happy place is, and this is going to be corny, but it's, it's obviously in Annapolis, usually with my, With my best friend, my, my oldest [00:58:00] dog, Bruce, you know, anywhere next to me.
John Tennaro: So I could be on a boat with him, by the pool with him, sitting on the couch with him. My happy place is where I am, which is why there's Annapolis everywhere here that I kind of found a place where I put my anchor down. And it's a place I think I've always been looking for and finally kind of live. So it just, I am truly thankful and have such gratitude for finding my home here.
John Tennaro: And, you know, it does truly make me happy. And I, when I leave it, I can't wait to get back
Stacy Havener: to it. It's so great because people underestimate how powerful it is to love where you live.
John Tennaro: Yes, and I've lived places I haven't loved, so when you do find it, it's like finding love with humans, right? You just know.
John Tennaro: Well,
Stacy Havener: that's great. Sister City, high five from Newport. Okay, let me just paint a little picture here. He's already shaking
John Tennaro: his head. If it's a question, I think it's a hard one.
Stacy Havener: Yeah, it is. You're gonna take the stage, my friend. You're gonna take the stage in a big stadium. You're gonna give a [00:59:00] talk to boutiques about, you know, how they can, how they, and there's thousands of boutiques in that.
Stacy Havener: What is the song? What's your walkout anthem? What do they play as you take the stage?
John Tennaro: This is the hardest question in the world, because I'm one of those people who. For the last 25 to 30 years, I've played my, like, life as a movie, and have created a soundtrack for it. Like, when this happened, this song would play.
John Tennaro: And when this happens, this song would play. Like, oh, the who's gonna play this song right now? And so, it's an impossible question to answer, but I'll, I'll give two answers, which will have two stories. First, my wedding, it was a Led Zeppelin wedding. We, we hired a string quartet to play our walk in song, to play our walk out song, to play our first dance song.
John Tennaro: So almost any, any Zeppelin song, but I'll say the one that's probably most appropriate is Rambl'On because I do tend to ramble on. So it [01:00:00] would also let my audience know, oh shit, look what's coming.
Stacy Havener: Cancel your dinner reservation because we're going to be
John Tennaro: here a while. I know it says an hour, but this whole introduction will be an hour.
John Tennaro: The second song is a little more melancholy, but one of my best friends, Kevin, passed away ten years ago. And it was sudden, and it sucked, and it still sucks. Afterwards, we wanted to put together kind of like a little video documentary, so me and my friend put it together, same of the story of my life. We had all these videos and pictures created, and we had to I my Contribution was putting songs to pictures and videos.
John Tennaro: And one video we have of him is he was taping himself driving down the highway with his glasses on. This dude was the coolest cat in the world. And it was playing Long Way to the Top by ACDC. It's a long way to the top to rock and roll. It's a great song. It reminds me of him who has been here every day since he's left.
John Tennaro: But isn't it an [01:01:00] applicable song to what we've talked about today? Especially about boutiques, because it is a long way to the top. But if you want to rock and roll, this is what you gotta do. So, that would be another song.
Stacy Havener: Thank you for sharing that. And I applaud your vulnerability, because I know that's not easy to talk about.
Stacy Havener: So thank you for sharing that. You're walking the talk, my friend. Okay, switching gears a bit, what profession, other than your own, would you like to attempt?
John Tennaro: Any time before the last 10 years, I would have said like sports writer, but sports have become a little bit less of a thing for me, I actually would be like a therapist, not like a psychiatrist where I have to like, but like a therapist, like I like to hear what's going on with people and see if I can talk with them through it, like, I used to think that meant like working in HR or something like that, but it, it would be talking with people and seeing if I can talk through things and help them.
John Tennaro: So I think it's a really important thing. Yeah. Mental and physical therapy, but I, I don't think I'd be a very good physical therapist, but [01:02:00] I, I think I could be a pretty damn good mental therapist, but we'll see.
Stacy Havener: I love that. That was a surprising answer. See, this is why this is a thing, right? Because we're learning so much about you.
Stacy Havener: Okay, what profession would you not like to do?
John Tennaro: Politician.
Stacy Havener: That comes up a lot. Probably not
John Tennaro: surprising. Yeah. In my heart of hearts, I'd love to put a bulldozer to the wall, but I don't think I could play the game that so many have to play. It's a game of facade, not a game of facts. And I just couldn't do it anymore.
John Tennaro: But, you know, the second answer would be, I'm a child of two teachers and my wife is a child of two teachers, and we. Both love and appreciate teachers, but it is such a hard profession right now. The responsibilities that are put upon teachers. I thought about it even years ago of like, I should get into that profession.
John Tennaro: It's in my blood. I'd love to do it. But then I'm also like, am I just walking into a, you know, a trap? So, um, I don't want my answer to come across as I don't love teachers. My best [01:03:00] friend's a teacher, but what a hard, hard, hard. profession, but politician would be definitely it because it's just so ugly now.
Stacy Havener: Yes, both very, very well said. Okay, last but certainly not least, what do you want people to say about you after you've retired or left the
John Tennaro: industry? Foof. Probably something along the lines of like, wow, that was an honest one. He didn't give a f k. That, that's
Stacy Havener: so great! And how empowering to like, live that every day, because then as, and it's kind of like full circle here, we're sort of ending where we started, which is, I bet there's a lot of people who worked with you that said that.
Stacy Havener: And still say that,
John Tennaro: and I think you can speak to this as well. Like, I don't want to confuse that as I don't care. I probably care too much, but I don't care about the things that we really shouldn't care about. And I do care about the things we probably don't care [01:04:00] enough about. So it is kind of like. My wife always says, like, sometimes just tell people what they want to hear.
John Tennaro: And I'm like, I just don't have that in my DNA. I tell them the truth. I'm, my candor is my strength, but also my weakness. But, you know, I think that's why people would just say, wow, that was an honest one.
Stacy Havener: Well, for all the people who appreciate having an honest one in their network and in their ecosystem, where can people connect with you, follow along, like what's the best way to get into John Tenaro's world?
John Tennaro: I've kind of reappeared back on LinkedIn. I think me and you both agree. It's such a wonderful tool. It's not social media. And if we are using it as that, we're not using it right. But I, I really want, you know, I'm trying to be more contributive and participating, but I think it's a great spot. That said, listen to this podcast.
John Tennaro: LinkedIn isn't an open invitation to send me a cold call through a message or say like, Hey, I don't know who you are, but here's my product. I'm selling you. Like, if you want to [01:05:00] reach out and say, hi, I'd love to talk and connect and, you know, learn about you and you learn about me. And if that's the end, great.
John Tennaro: But if you're coming to me pitching, I don't have a bat in my hand. I'm not swinging.
Stacy Havener: That's brilliant. And you heard it here first. Don't pitch slap John and his LinkedIn DMs. It's not going to get you very far people first. Well, my friend, what a pleasure. What a great. great opportunity for all our listeners to get a chance to know you.
Stacy Havener: And the advice has been priceless as it always is and honest. So thank you.
John Tennaro: Well, thank you for having me. And I'll say thank you for doing this. I think you're, you're giving a wider audience some unbelievable insights and things to think about, which we all, we all need to do. So thank you to you and to your whole crew at Havener.
John Tennaro: You guys are great.
Stacy Havener: Thank you, John. If you know a fund manager or a founder in the investment world with a great story, drop a note to Stacey at Stacey Havener. com and tell me about it till next [01:06:00] time. I'm Stacey Havener. Thanks for listening. And now a final word from our premier brand partner, Ultimis Fund Solutions.
John Tennaro: The conversion of Omric Berg's LP into an integral fund, empowered them to grow the fund from 90 million to over 200 million. And expand the reach from 100 investors to nearly 700 new investors and continues to grow today by pursuing the conversion. A homework Berg was able to lower minimums to 25, 000 welcome accredited investors.
John Tennaro: In addition to qualified purchasers, the entire conversion process was highly efficient. Because homework Berg chose to partner with ultimates and other partners with a proven track record in this type of structure to structure product transition. The headlines are often too focused on new interval funds from pedigreed providers, this new fund from this cool, big firm, et cetera.
John Tennaro: Maximizing a fund's potential through a conversion can be a powerful too, as we see in the story of Hallmark Berg. [01:07:00] Traditional investment management and alternative investment management Our conversion more retail investors are demanding access to non correlated strategies in a liquid asset classes to complement or supplement public markets exposure interval and tender offer funds offer managers a flexible wrapper that combines many of the benefits of both 1940 act and private fund structures.
John Tennaro: Interest in these products has increased significantly in the past decade. And we anticipate the volume of both new launches and structure conversions to continue well into the future.
Stacy Havener: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. The information is not an offer, solicitation, or [01:08:00] recommendation of any of the funds, services, or products, or to adopt any investment strategy. Investment values may fluctuate and past performance is not a guide to future
John Tennaro: performance.
John Tennaro: All opinions expressed by guests on the show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their firm. Manager's
Stacy Havener: appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement by Stacey Havener or
John Tennaro: Havener Capital Partners.
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