Episode 93: Meet Ben Beneche – Former Co-Lead of International Equity at $200B Pictet, Now Boutique Investment Co-Founder at Tourbillon
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Founders don’t start firms because it’s easy; they do it because they believe there’s a better way.
That was true for today’s guest, Ben Beneche, who left the comfort of a $200B+ global firm to launch his own boutique: Tourbillon Investment Management.
In this Episode, he sits down with Stacy to discuss:
His backstory: How his nomadic childhood shaped the independence and resilience he leans on as a founder today
The rebel spirit (from class clown to contrarian) that gave him the guts to walk away from a top role and bet on himself
What durability means in investing—and why it’s the heartbeat of Tourbillion’s strategy
How he built a fund powered by relationships, not just resumes
The real difference between investing and entrepreneurship (and what most founders miss)
What to know before launching your boutique
About Ben Beneche:
Prior to founding Tourbillon, Ben was senior portfolio manager and co-lead of international equities at Pictet Asset Management. For 10 years, he managed all-cap international equity portfolios where he was primarily responsible for investments in Japanese and Asia-Pacific listed businesses. He began his career in 2008 as an analyst focused on US equities and the energy sector. Ben has a degree in Economics and Economic History from York University (first class honors) and is a CFA charterholder. He bought his first stock when he was 16 and hasn’t looked back.
TRANSCRIPT
Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.
[00:00:00] Ben Beneche: It's not just about raising capital, but if you work off the assumption that every interaction you have, you can either make it a meaningful, mutually beneficial, but without any kind of expectations attached. It does have that snowballing effect and then weird and wonderful things can happen.
[00:00:17] Stacy Havener: Hey, my name is Stacey Havener.
[00:00:19] I'm obsessed with startups, stories, and sales. Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the Toughest Boys Club, wall Street. I've raised over 8 billion that has led to 30 billion in follow on assets for investment boutiques, you could say against the odds. Yeah, understatement. I share stories of the people behind the portfolios while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes.
[00:00:47] It's real talk here, money, authenticity, growth, setbacks, sales and marketing are all topics we discuss. Think of this as the capital raising class you wish you had in college. [00:01:00] Mixed with happy hour. Pull up a seat, grab your notebook, and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn. This is the Billion Dollar Backstory Podcast
[00:01:14] founders don't start businesses because it's easy. Oh my. It's far from it. We start a business because we believe there's a different way to do things that might be better for the clients we serve. Founders also have an almost universal rebel streak in them, even if they work in an industry like finance and investing, that doesn't seem to be all that rebel friendly.
[00:01:40] I. In our corner with investment boutiques. We love Rebels on this podcast. We do too, and it's with those vibes in mind that I'm thrilled to introduce you to my friend Ben Benesh. Ben began his investment career at Pictay Asset Management, a $200 billion asset management firm [00:02:00] based in Switzerland. He rose up the career ranks, eventually becoming a portfolio manager and co-lead of international equities.
[00:02:09] Until that inner rebel started to make some noise leading him to start to beyond investment management in 2022. This episode isn't only a great story. It's also a deep dive into owning what makes us different because different is better than better. Without further ado, let's dive in. Meet Ben. Ben. Thank you so much for being here in the studio with me today.
[00:02:37] One of my favorite things about having a podcast is that I get to just schedule time to chat with my friends, and then I invite other people to listen in. It's like magical for me. So thank you for being here.
[00:02:50] Ben Beneche: Very welcome. My pleasure.
[00:02:52] Stacy Havener: So I wanna start with my favorite. Thing, which is your story, because here you [00:03:00] sit as a founder of an investment boutique today.
[00:03:03] Ben Beneche: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:04] Stacy Havener: That wasn't always the case and I wanna go back to your journey to get here,
[00:03:10] Ben Beneche: right? Yeah, sure. Shall I start right at the top? I think it's always informative to know, you know, someone's someone's childhood and background. So yes, please. Maybe the first thing people might want to know is I'm basically a bit of a mutt.
[00:03:24] Uh, my mother's English, but she spent her whole life, you know, traveling around the world. My father's French Jewish heritage, and so my upbringing was all over the place in between France and the UK mostly. But we moved, we moved houses and schools on a, on a pretty frequent basis. And you know, that kind of nomadic type of living that I had for a lot of my childhood.
[00:03:52] Probably from still a pretty decent sense of independence, uh, and maybe some resilience a bit along the way.
[00:03:58] Yeah,
[00:03:58] Ben Beneche: it was a great [00:04:00] childhood and probably, you know, what I'd describe as solidly middle class. Yeah. Uh, you know, my. I had, I made new friends wherever I went, but my best friend throughout was, was my dad.
[00:04:13] Um, you know, we'd, we'd hang out every weekend and play golf or tennis or, or whatever, but he was a businessman himself. He was what you'd probably call a value added resetter in it today. So, oh, the kind of common language at the dinner table. To my mother's dismay probably was, was, was business. Uh, and you know, that led to me having an interest in the markets.
[00:04:37] And I was, I probably bought my first stock when I was 15 years old kind of thing. So I've, I, my partner Ramesh, likes to say I was probably born with a stock certificate in my hand. It's a bit of a stretch, but it's not, it's not a million miles. It's miles away as it related to sort of my professional career, academia and all that stuff.
[00:04:59] I was [00:05:00] pretty. Good students, but I was probably bordering on a little bit obnoxious. I was pretty intolerant of things that I didn't like, which is basically everything but business and history. But I was pretty good at those things and I, you know, I, I went to university at a place called York in the uk.
[00:05:16] Um, did pretty well there. Finished near top of my top of my year, and I started, I interned at BlackRock, uh, but I started in the industry in September, 2008. Very interesting time. Yeah. Uh, at a place called Pick Day Asset Management. Um, on the equities graduate scheme there, I mean, actually as I was doing my graduate training, we were in Canary Wharf, so I had my second week on the job.
[00:05:47] Uh, I was, I was at the bar, uh, and I could, and it was the day Lehman
[00:05:53] went. Oh,
[00:05:54] Ben Beneche: and we, I, one of the first things I noticed was sort of the, that hoard of people with, [00:06:00] with cardboard boxes leaving.
[00:06:01] No. So
[00:06:02] Ben Beneche: to the extent that I do think people have. Quite formed by those early experiences in the industry. That was basically mine, uh, which was certainly interesting.
[00:06:11] So I, I did that. I spent some time in Geneva. I became an analyst on a global equity fund, ended up focusing on oil and gas, but then in 2012, the CIO of Pictay, at the time, a chap called Richard Heli wanted to step aside from money management. He'd had a bit of a dual hat for a while. He'd been running the Japanese part of a fairly large, well established international equity fund.
[00:06:35] And the initial plan was for me to slowly, you know, take over his responsibilities there. It ended up being really quite quick within, within a year, you know, and these things can be, so from 2012 through to basically 2019, um, I was focused almost entirely on Japan. I'd spend two or three months a year.
[00:06:57] Out there, uh. [00:07:00] Halt days kind of thing. They were fantastic. I'd, you know, I'd just meet three or four companies, uh, a day and report back, you know, at the end of the week, this is what I've been doing. Wow. It was absolutely fantastic. Then in, in 2019, I was asked to be sort of. Co-head of international equities.
[00:07:17] I also seeded and launched an Acqui X US fund, so that was International plus emerging markets. And then in 2022, I've, I've always had this independent streak as I kind of mentioned mm-hmm. At the beginning. And I felt, frankly, I, I wanted to paint my own picture. I also felt that without wanting to sound, you know, too arrogant about it, I thought I could do better for clients in the context of, uh, an independent boutique.
[00:07:47] Um, so alongside my partners, Ramesh Gerde and, and Simon set out an and launched Tobe Beyond in 22, we launched the fund in in 2023. Um, wow. So [00:08:00] that's. How I got to where I am today.
[00:08:01] Stacy Havener: Well, thank you for sharing all of that. Of course. I wanna go back and kind of pull some threads forward. 'cause I do think it's really interesting when you go back to someone's childhood and I.
[00:08:12] Hindsight being 2020, you can really see some roots materialize, like the independent streak that you just gave the nod to. And even as you were talking about Japan, I also thought about the nomadic. Component of your childhood and being able to make friends. Because as someone who's never traveled to Asia, I find it very, very intimidating.
[00:08:35] I've traveled lots of places, but that's culturally language. There are so many barriers. And you lit up when you talked about going there. Mm-hmm. So it's fascinating when we go back to our childhood and kind of look forward. So your dad was in business, but where do you think the roots of the stock market actually came from?
[00:08:53] I mean, was that something that he was a hobbyist in or, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:08:58] Ben Beneche: Not really. No, not him. [00:09:00] I had a, I had a, an economics teacher. Who used to be a stockbroker.
[00:09:05] Stacy Havener: Okay,
[00:09:06] Ben Beneche: Mr. Manville, I can't remember him distinctly. And, and he, he was the one, ah, who he introduced me to, the intelligent investor. I don't know when that was.
[00:09:17] Okay. 13 or 14. And, and you probably often hear the same kind of thing from more value oriented investors anyway, um, you read that or something along those lines and a light bulb clicks. And, and for me, yeah, I, I kind of, I got the bug. Pretty hard, hard. And it's been, it's been sort of one, one way since. But he was the one who really got me in, my dad gave me my first stock tip.
[00:09:44] Oh. Uh, which was a company called Double Take Technologies, which sort of, it kind of went up five X after the IPO and then went down 90% and Tom Bra took it out. Uh, they, they did something called disaster recovery [00:10:00] software, which was basically you. If a data center goes down, not everything gets lost along with it, and it turns out that Microsoft could bundle that.
[00:10:08] Into their stuff pretty easily. You didn't need a separate piece of software. That was my first experience. It's been a bit better since, but it was, uh, well,
[00:10:16] Stacy Havener: yeah, it probably shaped, shaped something along the way though, right?
[00:10:20] Ben Beneche: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was, I, I, I had no clue what I was doing. I couldn't read an, an account, but I did.
[00:10:28] I did. It did teach me that. A, a stock tip is probably, probably not ideal.
[00:10:33] Stacy Havener: Well, and stocks do go down, which may be, and stocks do, and maybe we've all sort of forgotten that, but mm-hmm. We're being reminded now, currently. Okay.
[00:10:41] Ben Beneche: Yes.
[00:10:41] Stacy Havener: Yeah. What about the, like you mentioned a little bit of a rebel side to you
[00:10:45] Ben Beneche: mm-hmm.
[00:10:46] Uh,
[00:10:46] Stacy Havener: in the context of schooling.
[00:10:48] Ben Beneche: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:48] Stacy Havener: And I also found it interesting that you said you liked. Business and history. So what did you actually major in?
[00:10:54] Ben Beneche: Economics and economic history. Oh, uh, so it really, I really, I really went down that [00:11:00] route. I always liked the economic history side more. Uh, actually I was thinking about my dissertation 'cause I wrote, I wrote a dissertation about the impact of the Smoot Hawley tariffs in the thirties.
[00:11:12] Uh, no
[00:11:12] way.
[00:11:13] Ben Beneche: Yeah. So sort of, I actually, like, I dug it out today. Just to think, just to see if there are any parallels that I could draw from it. But the economic history side always intrigued me more. The kind of the stock market is basically a collection of, of human. Judgment and intelligence, and it's not, it's not a science, you know, I, well, yeah, I wouldn't be doing this if I believed in the efficient market hypothesis type of thing.
[00:11:38] So I've, I've always found that human element particularly, particularly interesting. But I was definitely a bit obnoxious at times and in principal,
[00:11:49] Stacy Havener: but, but to be honest, I think that might be. A pretty common trait in founders, right?
[00:11:57] Ben Beneche: Possibly.
[00:11:57] Stacy Havener: Right. Because, because [00:12:00] to take the leap, and this is a good segue, to take the leap to start your own business mm-hmm.
[00:12:06] Is super terrifying.
[00:12:07] Mm-hmm.
[00:12:08] Stacy Havener: And you don't do it because it's like a sure thing. Yeah. No, you do it because there's the, the alternative to doing it is not an option for you. You are, you know, compelled. To move forward with this idea, and you do it as you alluded because you think there's a different way of something to be done that could be better for the people that you wanna serve.
[00:12:33] Ben Beneche: I mean, I couldn't say it any better. That is spot on.
[00:12:35] Stacy Havener: Yeah. So I wanna talk about that, but first I wanna know about the name.
[00:12:39] Ben Beneche: Yes.
[00:12:40] Stacy Havener: Tell. Tell us about the name.
[00:12:41] Ben Beneche: Yes. Uh, so A to beyond it has two meanings.
[00:12:45] Stacy Havener: Okay.
[00:12:45] Ben Beneche: Meaning, number one is it's the mechanism in a mechanical watch which prevents errors related to, due to the effects of gravity.
[00:12:55] So there's two things there we're, we're trying to be precise. Mm-hmm. But we [00:13:00]think. Investing in beating the stock markets is in a way, trying to defy gravity. It's an incredibly tough thing to do, and anyone who says otherwise is, is sort of kidding themself. And then the second meaning in French, it mean to beyond is, uh, a whirlwind.
[00:13:15] So that's where it, that's where it comes from.
[00:13:18] Stacy Havener: And talk to me about that piece. Meaning that the markets are, or or what's the Yeah,
[00:13:23] Ben Beneche: the markets are a whirlwind, you know, I doesn't, that one doesn't have a particularly deep meaning to it.
[00:13:28] Stacy Havener: But it's a cool concept. It's dual meaning, but
[00:13:32] Ben Beneche: it's the, the dual meaning is what it's, and it's sort of obviously a nod to my heritage and
[00:13:36] Stacy Havener: Yes, yes.
[00:13:38] I love that. Okay. So that's the name. So now when you decide that you're gonna, you know, set up your own firm, I'm not gonna say the name because I don't have a super cool French accent the way you do. So anytime it's gonna be said today, it will be said by you.
[00:13:52] Okay.
[00:13:57] Stacy Havener: Was it that you wanted to do differently? [00:14:00] Because Pictay is a well-known firm specialist. They're very good at what they do. It's not BlackRock.
[00:14:08] Ben Beneche: Yep.
[00:14:08] Stacy Havener: Right? Mm-hmm. So, but even there, you still felt like there were nuances that you wanted to harness or lean into. So talk about those a little bit.
[00:14:17] Ben Beneche: There are some structural things, I think.
[00:14:20] Hmm. I mean, there's, there's always going to be somewhat of an imperative to raise. Large, large sums of money.
[00:14:28] Yeah.
[00:14:28] Ben Beneche: And at a level that starts to, at least in my opinion, become antithetical to superior returns.
[00:14:35] Yeah.
[00:14:36] Ben Beneche: Uh, there's always, because there's such a large plethora of. Products, and they call them products as opposed to funds or install strategies.
[00:14:44] Yeah.
[00:14:45] Ben Beneche: You have to fit in some sort of clearly defined box, uh, which again, some of those boxes are more fabricated. Than they are real in terms of what it actually means for the underlying investment. So [00:15:00] Picto was an absolutely phenomenal training ground, but the ability to do something incredibly differently and not necessarily hugely scalable, we think capacity for our.
[00:15:11] Our fund is around 2 billion, but mm-hmm. In, in the world of a pic day, that's, that's still quite small.
[00:15:16] Stacy Havener: Sure.
[00:15:17] Ben Beneche: Wor worth things. There was another element, which was from a personal perspective I mentioned I became co-lead of the International Equities Funds at PIC Day. My career, we had a relatively large team.
[00:15:29] It was sort of 10, 10 people, uh, including analysts and the, like. My career would've become more and more about managing that team and that structure. And although some of those people are absolutely phenomenal and remain very, very good friends to this day, I actually work with my current, my, one of my current partners.
[00:15:48] My life would've been more involved in that, which is frankly not what I loved and, and not what I was. Necessarily proven to be, to be good at I, I love the act of of investing. So [00:16:00]that was, you know, that was more of a personal tilt.
[00:16:02] Stacy Havener: Yeah, it's, I'm reading this book. It's an oldie, but it's a goodie.
[00:16:07] Ben Beneche: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:07] Stacy Havener: Which is so good. Be so good. They can't ignore you. Mm-hmm. By Cal Newport. And the section I'm in right now is basically about like being a craftsman. And that's what came to mind as you were talking that I think. You aren't alone as a founder. In saying that some of the reasons of leaving is that you were, as your career was evolving and escalating, it was taking you farther and farther away from the craft that you loved.
[00:16:37] Ben Beneche: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:37] Stacy Havener: Which is beautiful and a and a true dedication. Now I have to ask a very real question though, because there's also a side to entrepreneurship which can do that because now you set up your firm.
[00:16:51] Mm.
[00:16:51] Stacy Havener: To be in, you know, in your craft. 'cause it's what you love, but you also sort of put on a whole bunch of other hats at the [00:17:00] same time.
[00:17:00] Ben Beneche: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:01] Stacy Havener: So how have you managed that? That's tough.
[00:17:03] Ben Beneche: That is tough. And honestly, with the benefits of hindsight, I realize. How clueless I was, uh, on that side of things when I was at a large asset. And honestly, that's probably the sign of a very effective, seamless structure. Yeah, it's a large asset management firm.
[00:17:24] If, if your, if the portfolio managers are so removed from the operational side of things and to a large degree. You know, the groundwork, at least that goes into the asset raising side of things. That probably means that everyone else is doing a great job.
[00:17:41] Stacy Havener: It's a good point.
[00:17:42] Ben Beneche: Um, and so, but you know, actually dealing with the custodian, the fund administrator, the accountant, the legal, all of that kind of thing, it's been a steep learning curve for me.
[00:17:54] Yeah. The investing has been seamless. The rest of it has been all new. Yeah. Now what it does do. [00:18:00] I'm able to look at it with the eyes of an investor.
[00:18:03] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:18:03] Ben Beneche: With a fresh perspective without any baggage as to how things have to be.
[00:18:08] Stacy Havener: I love that.
[00:18:08] Ben Beneche: And try and really put myself in the shoes of the client, the people, the partners who trust us with their capital to do that side of things to the best of.
[00:18:20] Our ability as well with no sunk cost and no a priority, you know, a perception of how it's done. So it's actually been, it's been very fulfilling, but I have a whole new level of respect and admiration for. All the people who helped me in my prior life there.
[00:18:37] Stacy Havener: It's such a good point. I've also heard investors say that once they became an entrepreneur, it actually also informed their investing.
[00:18:47] Ben Beneche: Yep, that's true.
[00:18:48] Stacy Havener: Yeah. Right, because now you're in it. Now you're in it.
[00:18:51] Ben Beneche: Now you're in it. I mean, it's sort of the difference, not this isn't an original. Yeah,
[00:18:56] Stacy Havener: but I'm
[00:18:56] Ben Beneche: gonna, I'm gonna use it anyway. I mean, someone said the [00:19:00]difference between sort of investing in entrepreneurship is sort of the difference between being an astronaut, IE the entrepreneur.
[00:19:06] You're a kind of, I don't know, on the moon dodging comets and, and, and, you know, think Apollo 13 type of situation, uh, relative to being an astronomer with, you know, with a, with a telescope kind of just sort of. Observing the way constellations move and, and, and having a, you know, from the comfort of your armchair effectively.
[00:19:29] And that is, that is a very real feeling. You realize that actually the way businesses operate, it's not necessarily amenable to an Excel spreadsheet. It's about people often in the boardroom, often making very tough decisions and. To the extent that you get closer to that reality, it changes the nature of your discussion with the management teams that we invest in.
[00:19:54] Because we, we speak that language now a little.
[00:19:57] Stacy Havener: Yes.
[00:19:58] Ben Beneche: And it's hugely useful. [00:20:00]
[00:20:00] Stacy Havener: So well said. And we're gonna have dinner soon with our friend Greg Dean. Mm-hmm. And he talked about this in my podcast interview with him as well, which is, you do want a little bit. Sort of underestimate or just aren't aware of what goes into having your own firm until you're sort of there and you're like, oh my gosh, now I have to figure out all this other stuff.
[00:20:23] So let me ask you this question along those lines, which is a little bit, not a little bit, a lot of the struggle for people to make this leap to become a founder, which is chicken and the egg. I wanna do it, but I need the money. I need that seed capital or the operating capital to do it. And yet I can't get that until I actually make the leap.
[00:20:43] And so you're sort of stuck in this push me, pull you kind of dynamic. Yeah. So how did, like, how did that first launch go? Did you have a partner that said. You know, Ben, if you guys go and do this, I'm with you. Or like, what was that first, [00:21:00] first few investors talk about that?
[00:21:02] Ben Beneche: So the, the first investors have been almost entirely the prior colleagues of myself and Ramesh.
[00:21:08] So people from Pictay and his firm, Veritas Asset Management. So the, the trust of. Our old colleagues
[00:21:16] amazing is
[00:21:16] Ben Beneche: really what allowed us to make this leap on top of our, sort of our non-executive chairman, a chap called Simon Todd
[00:21:24] mm-hmm.
[00:21:25] Ben Beneche: Who was a very successful PM at places like Marathon and MFS. He's been my mentor, ah, for over a decade and he, he also gave a nudge, he's, he's part of the business in a non-executive capacity.
[00:21:39] Um, but he also helped a bit with the capital side of things as well. So it sort of de-risked us from day one. And I feel, you know, the story of Tobi is the story of relationships, and that's, yeah, that's it. Um, and actually I don't think it's any different as you grow, you know, during my time at pic a, we, we raised a, [00:22:00] a few billion dollars.
[00:22:01] Uh, I never, not once. Felt that getting the trust of a client was because of the box ticking type of things. Yes, they matter. You people want to know the structures there. They want to know, you know, what you're doing. But it, at some level, it always felt like a, a personal. Things like, do I, do I trust this person?
[00:22:22] And it's not changed?
[00:22:24] Stacy Havener: No. And it won't. Like from now until the end of time, I don't care what AI ever does because business is still people doing business with each other. And what, I love what you said about who sort of backed you, if you will. Mm-hmm. Because I think there's a. Perception that sort of founder led sales is what happens in Silicon Valley, not on Wall Street.
[00:22:47] And the reality is founder led sales happens in any business at a certain point of its evolution, especially in the beginning. Especially in the early days. We had a client [00:23:00]recently who's, he's done, I think this is his fourth boutique, the previous three, all super successful. This fourth one is kind of his last, you know, turn of it, um, on his own without maybe a, a majority partner with him.
[00:23:17] We had this conversation with him, we had to remind him that, like in the beginning it is about your founder's network. The effect that that can have is huge and true to exactly what you said, one of his former colleagues has just committed five to to 15 million. Mm-hmm. For, for the strategy. Mm-hmm. And it was who he knew and it wasn't even an allocator.
[00:23:43] Mm-hmm. By the traditional sense of the word, it was someone he worked with previously.
[00:23:49] Mm-hmm.
[00:23:50] Stacy Havener: So it's just a great reminder. I want everyone who's listening to really hear this, that the network you have is so crucial. I. Your [00:24:00] entrepreneurial journey.
[00:24:00] Ben Beneche: Yeah. And it's worth, it should frame how you approach all things in life.
[00:24:05] Not, it's not just about raising capital, but No, if you work off the assumption that every interaction you have, you know, I don't wanna get too philosophical about it, but you can either make it a meaningful,
[00:24:15] yeah.
[00:24:16] Ben Beneche: You know, kind of mutually beneficial, but without any kind of expectations attached. But you know, just a, if you treat every interaction as an important event, then it leads to, it does have that snowballing effect
[00:24:30] Stacy Havener: does,
[00:24:30] Ben Beneche: and then weird and wonderful things can happen.
[00:24:32] Stacy Havener: Oh gosh, I love that. That's one of my favorite moments so far. Alright, so let's go into this idea of wanting to build something different.
[00:24:41] Hmm.
[00:24:42] Stacy Havener: Because I really, you know, this is one of my things, like people do business with people. Everyone's tired of me saying it. It doesn't matter. I won't stop saying it.
[00:24:49] And also this idea that different is different is better. And better. And so what, you talked a little bit about the structural components of wanting to have your own [00:25:00] firm. What about the investment philosophy itself or the process? Did you wanna lean into more?
[00:25:05] Ben Beneche: Yeah, so we have Charlie Munger says something to the effect of, you wanna have one?
[00:25:11] I. Take have one idea, one good idea, and take it seriously.
[00:25:14] Oh,
[00:25:14] Ben Beneche: and our idea that we take incredibly seriously is a focus on durability.
[00:25:19] Mm-hmm.
[00:25:19] Ben Beneche: In business, we think that that's sort of at the essence of equity investing, and everyone sort of knows that the value of a business is. The net present value of its cash flows, right?
[00:25:31] Uh, and all the rest of it. But actually if you, if you take a bit of a step back and you actually think about the underlying maths behind it, it's sort of like, you know, if you've got a 6% yield growing 6%, it's, it's gonna take you 12 years to get your money back, and it's gonna take you about 25 years to earn a 10% return.
[00:25:51] It's a long time. It's a really, it's a really long time now that's on the premise of never selling. The [00:26:00] company or the, or the, or the, or the shares at a, at a higher valuation. But if, if you are taking that true business ownership approach to investing, you're not thinking about the exit. You're looking for the business to generate the return for you.
[00:26:12] Mm. But you have to take that kind of long-term view. And when, when you frame it that way, then you are, you are whole aperture turns towards durability. Like, can you actually forecast this thing for potentially 20 years? You know, am I confident? In that forecast. So there's a couple of ways that we think about durability, where we start with first principles in a world of GPTs.
[00:26:39] Yeah, I don't know what number we're at anymore, but you know, we think there's some value to towards a truly first principles approach as opposed to one based on, you know, backward looking financial metrics, which basically readily observable to everyone. And that's. Frankly, that's the one thing Ramesh and I really bonded on.
[00:26:57] We wanted to find this deeper truth [00:27:00] as to what allows a business to endure. And so there are two ideas that we have. Uh, one is based on the idea of scarcity.
[00:27:08] Mm-hmm. Equal those
[00:27:09] Ben Beneche: fulcrum assets is, is a language that we use, but it's basically a product or service that has no closed substitutes. In the eyes of a customer.
[00:27:17] So think of a clear example would be a toll road, but it could be metaphorical, it could be a brand, it could be a piece of software that you can't. And replace easily. And then we have another idea based on the idea of, of, um, scale and we call those symbiotic loops. And these are businesses that have clear scale economies, which as they grow, they use to nurture the relationship they have with their customer and their ecosystem as opposed to profit extracting.
[00:27:44] They, they're basically using that scale economy and sharing it with their ecosystem, and that makes it much harder to replicate. Versus a, an extractive business. So those are the two business model ideas. And you know, you can, you can hear those and you could make them [00:28:00] quite general. You could, you could almost fit any business into them if you wanted.
[00:28:03] Mm-hmm. But again, if you take that, those simple ideas very, very seriously, and you are looking for the purest examples, it leads to a huge degree of. Focus. And so for example,
[00:28:15] yeah,
[00:28:15] Ben Beneche: we have around 40% of the portfolio, four zero, uh, in certain types of retailers, which basically best represent that symbiotic loop idea.
[00:28:27] So I won't talk about specific names, but the one that resonates with everyone that we don't have an investment in. 'cause we're value investors. Yeah. But it's Costco. Yeah. Everyone knows what that means, right? Yes. It's, it's that type of business that we, we look for.
[00:28:51] So just so we can,
[00:28:53] Stacy Havener: this is fascinating. I love this. So how many positions in the portfolio? Mm-hmm. What's the range, let's [00:29:00] say?
[00:29:00] Ben Beneche: Yep. Uh, 15 to 20 is the range. Now it's top end skewed, so around 75% of the assets are in the top 10. Okay. I think there's some value to a tail beha, behaviorally we can, we can talk about that, but it's, it's fairly, fairly focused.
[00:29:14] Stacy Havener: Okay. So 15 to 20. Great. And durability's at the center. And then, so basically, when you are thinking about your portfolio, and this goes back to the whole box concept, when you're thinking about your portfolio, are you basically breaking the portfolio into fulcrum and symbiotic, like mm-hmm. Those two categories?
[00:29:32] That's how you think about it. And are you wanting. Like the right mix of those two types of assets or No,
[00:29:39] Ben Beneche: no. We'll be, we'll be opportunistic as to what, you know, our target list of companies Yeah. That we understand.
[00:29:46] Mm-hmm. And
[00:29:46] Ben Beneche: that truly represent those ideas is very narrow for a global unconstrained fund, but that target list is 60 or 70 companies.
[00:29:54] So we will not compromise on purity of that idea or depth of research. [00:30:00] Um, so you, you get very narrow. Very, very quickly. Yeah. Uh, but then within that it's, it's just where the, we can get the best IRRs and that'll change during market cycles at the moment. Very broadly characterizing the, the types, fulcrum assets, the types of the likes of Microsoft or, or something like that.
[00:30:22] Basically software, which you cannot easily rip out. Or a Constellation software, which people may know very well, it's. They're priced at the level that we think is, is discounting a, a huge amount of that good news. Whereas we're finding a bit more opportunity on the, on the symbiotic loop side today, and that'll, that'll lightly change at some point in the future.
[00:30:42] But we don't know when or how.
[00:30:44] Stacy Havener: And so how do you think about the risk management of that? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 'cause I'm sure there are certain characteristics or dynamics just to how. Stocks, depending on which category they're in, move.
[00:30:58] Mm-hmm.
[00:30:59] Stacy Havener: Also just [00:31:00] different exposures or, or drivers of return. And so how are you thinking about the risks when you're pairing them, especially given it's only 15 to 20 names?
[00:31:08] Ben Beneche: Yeah. So for us, risk is, it really isn't, not knowing what you invest, inability. If, if, if we, if we're gonna have a 15% position Yep. In a company, but our guiding light being durability, that extends to things like. A durable balance sheet that extends, that extends to, you know, not just the two ideas we mentioned, which are really just a, a customer centric view of the world in a lot of ways.
[00:31:34] Mm. It extends to how the business is managed. Are they extracting profits? Are they reinvesting appropriately and are they too levered? So typically what you'll find from, from our portfolio is from a market exposure perspective, maximum drawdowns, beta, that kind of thing, we. We're unlikely to do very well in a world where markets are going up 20 or 30% a year.
[00:31:58] Mm-hmm. If we keep up, that would be [00:32:00] fantastic. But in in worlds where there is more of a dislocation mm-hmm. We'll tend to do, will tend to do well as it relates to sort of correlation between companies. You know, these ideas that we mentioned, they're, they don't typically fit into factor models.
[00:32:15] Okay.
[00:32:16] Great
[00:32:17] Ben Beneche: point. Frankly speaking, you know, the. The correlation between, uh, Greg's the bakers here in the uk, which is a, a retailer of sausage roll to think corn dogs. Yeah. And let's say an auto zone in the us they're nominally, they're types of retailer In reality, economically, they're incredibly different.
[00:32:39] So that's, that's how we approach it.
[00:32:42] Stacy Havener: So fascinating. So is retail. One of the, and it could be just a cycle thing, but is that one, you've mentioned a, a couple retailers, is that a, a pretty pure expression of like that symbiotic loop like a Costco?
[00:32:55] Ben Beneche: It is, yeah. It's one of the purest, and it, as I said, it represents about [00:33:00] 40% of the portfolio today.
[00:33:01] Yeah. But there are basically six buckets overall that we could invest in low cost. Retailers, low cost financials, scaled platforms. Those are sort of the symbiotic loops. And then the fulcrum assets are low churn software, mission critical industrials and durable brands. Those are the six. Quote unquote buckets.
[00:33:24] Mm-hmm. Just so happens today, the opportunity set is a lot in, in the retail and financials side of things. So those two together, that's 70% of the portfolio today.
[00:33:36] Stacy Havener: Fascinating. 'cause I was, I wanted to ask about contrarian because of course you, you going back to your backstory when you said, you know, I don't really like.
[00:33:45] You know, a lot of rules and I don't really want people telling me what to do, which, which then sort of lends itself to, you'd be contrarian, but that hasn't come up as a, as a term yet. No. A lot, a lot of value Investors probably are somewhat contrarian. 'cause [00:34:00] What's that Seth Klarman quote? Like, we're not in it for the group hugs, basically.
[00:34:03] Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, but you're naming. I don't wanna say sector, but I will for, you know, industries that have been pretty unloved.
[00:34:12] Ben Beneche: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:13] Stacy Havener: And some could even say like, with retail, oh gosh, like it's dying or whatever. Right. There's a lot of, so do you identify as a contrarian or No,
[00:34:23] Ben Beneche: I. Probably Yes.
[00:34:24] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:34:25] Ben Beneche: I try to foster a mentality of indifference to the crowd as opposed to, as opposed to actively trying to be different.
[00:34:34] Stacy Havener: Good point
[00:34:35] Ben Beneche: to the crowd.
[00:34:36] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:34:36] Ben Beneche: But let's call a spade a spade. You mentioned some sectors. That's actually true. Uh, even today, you know, we only have 20% of the portfolio in the us. The vast majority is in. The UK and Japan,
[00:34:50] which are,
[00:34:51] Ben Beneche: you know, contrarian type of markets. The UK in particular.
[00:34:56] Yeah.
[00:34:56] Ben Beneche: So the proof is in the pudding, but it's [00:35:00] dangerous to sort of, I think that the, the best form of contrarianism is just pure independence, and that can mean you're buying a stock at a 52 week high at some point in time if you truly think that it's, it's undervalued.
[00:35:14] You shouldn't let the, the share price or what other people are doing, define, define that, but on average. Yeah, markets are volatile. I think the average, I read this fantastic statistic. The average peak to trough of a stock in the s and p. What do you think it would be on a, in a given year, if you could pick, if you could pick the bottom tick and the top tick, which obviously we can't, but hypothetically, what do you think the average is?
[00:35:40] Stacy Havener: Well, I think. Recency bias has me thinking it can't be very wide because right now it's been so incredibly narrow. Now, I guess as I think as I talked that out, that's only a very small. Subset of the s and p 500. So I don't know. [00:36:00]
[00:36:00] Ben Beneche: It's bigger than certainly I imagined when I read the number, I didn't believe it, so I had to go and factor
[00:36:05] Stacy Havener: it.
[00:36:05] Yeah. What is it?
[00:36:06] Ben Beneche: So it's, it's about 80% what?
[00:36:07] Stacy Havener: Eight
[00:36:08] Ben Beneche: zero? Yeah.
[00:36:09] Stacy Havener: And that's what is the timeframe?
[00:36:11] Ben Beneche: That's over the past 20 years, give or take,
[00:36:14] Stacy Havener: which is actually really amazing. Given the last, how long, how long has like the MEG seven sort of vibes been a thing? 10 years. Yeah, it's not
[00:36:23] Ben Beneche: longer. I mean, they've had, they've changed names and constituents, but the broad, I, the broad idea has basically idea basically been around for, for at least 10 years.
[00:36:31] And so that's the thing. It's stocks and volatile. Mm-hmm. Our point there is, you know, we'll try and use that volatility. To our, to our advantage. Um, so we'll, we'll often lead to more contrarian type of behaviors, but not blindly so.
[00:36:48] Stacy Havener: And so is the, is the harnessing the volatility component, is that in trading around a position or is that in, will you actually, because durability to [00:37:00] me would indicate.
[00:37:02] Very low turnover.
[00:37:03] Ben Beneche: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:04] Stacy Havener: I think there's also something here we normally don't get, so investment on this podcast, but I'm really loving this. Um, but there's a point here about, you know, investors like low turnover in general, allocators like turnover mm-hmm. And managers. Often talk about turnover as just the stat,
[00:37:22] Ben Beneche: right?
[00:37:22] Stacy Havener: But I think there's nuance there because new name turnover to me is really what the allocator is meaning when they say turnover. So talk about that whole concept, like are you holding a position? Are you trading around it? Are you exiting and reentering? Like what does that all look like?
[00:37:37] Ben Beneche: It's a really interesting question and we've come to the view that, you know.
[00:37:42] Actually buying and selling. Mm-hmm. At least for us, because we have this very long term time horizon, and we do our, our average turnover is around 20% and we're hoping to own an investment, frankly, indefinitely. Mm-hmm. Unless the price becomes precluding or we're wrong. [00:38:00] Right. So that is, that is the philosophy.
[00:38:04] But buying and selling to us are not two sides of the same coin. Yeah. You are buying something on a 7% yield. Um. Do you replace it with a new thing that's at, you know, eight or seven and a half, something that you don't know, that you haven't lived with, that you can't have the same degree of confidence around, or it may take time to get there.
[00:38:26] That for us, would basically be noise and you'd be curtailing that durability that we're effectively trying to to harness. So the way that we do it is. We're incredibly value oriented as it relates to new investments. Mm-hmm. The average, we call it owner earnings yield, but it's, it's effectively free cashflow yield.
[00:38:46] Um, for an investment. That purchase for us has been around seven point half. Okay. Or 8%. But then our sales are outright sales have been closer to 4%. Uh, so, you know, you've got a, a meaningful delta there [00:39:00] where we're not viewing it as two sides of the same point. We want the compounding to work for us, but there becomes a time.
[00:39:06] If it's five years worth of compounding, that's already been
[00:39:09] Stacy Havener: realized, taken
[00:39:10] Ben Beneche: away, you're already, you're already paying for it. That's where we reach our, you know, threshold as to, we don't know the future that well. That's where the value gene comes out. We, we really don't, if you've read the work of Richard Zeck, Houser or te, or others.
[00:39:26] Well, we tend to be far too confident in our assessments of the future. Weird, weird things happen, so we, we don't wanna fall into that trap either. So that's, that's how we've behaved.
[00:39:35] Stacy Havener: And so are you trimming positions around the margin?
[00:39:39] Ben Beneche: Hmm, yeah. It's, it's a gradual process. Okay. Let's say there's a, a, the great scenario if we buy something at eight and the business compound is growing, its intrinsic value at a decent rate.
[00:39:52] And also it's reating. Yeah. At the same time, it's going towards that three or 4% level at which we'd, we'd probably be a seller. [00:40:00] That'll be a gradual process of reducing, reducing the position. Um, it's not always, that's not always what's happened. Sometimes, you know, we're obviously, I. We make, we make misjudgments.
[00:40:10] Yeah. And we have to own up to those two. So, you know, but in a hypothetical scenario, it'll be a gradual process as opposed to an abrupt, a totally abrupt one.
[00:40:20] Stacy Havener: Okay, so now I wanna go back to qualitative. I wanna go back to this idea that, you know, now you're an entrepreneur and, and talking with management teams kind of gives you have a different lens.
[00:40:31] All of that is so magical, and as you said, I think. There's so much more to investing than a spreadsheet.
[00:40:40] Mm-hmm.
[00:40:40] Stacy Havener: So of these 15 to 20 names, are you giving intentional thought to the market caps of these names? Where I'm headed with this is. Because you want durability and you want compounding. Does that tip you to something like a Microsoft, where it's sort of like a mature business and it's just, you know, [00:41:00] no one can see what I'm doing there, but whatever that is, that's my, my, my compounding hand.
[00:41:06] I get it. The
[00:41:06] Ben Beneche: compounding thing
[00:41:09] Stacy Havener: where like a small cap name could be doing this or going, you know, in the wrong direction. So how are you thinking about that? And how are you and how are you interacting with management as you assess that?
[00:41:21] Ben Beneche: Look, our focus is on the underlying business. There are smaller companies.
[00:41:26] Mm-hmm. We own a few drug stores in Japan, and then the, the drug stores in Japan are more like a Costco and Aldi or a little, ah, they're mostly food and mostly food and sundries. They fill that gap of the market to a large extent, but it. The stability of their earnings and cash flows are as good as you would find from much, much larger companies.
[00:41:47] And these are, you know, 500 million type market cap. Businesses, uh, they happen to trade at very attractive valuations as well in our, um, so for us it's, it's more [00:42:00] about the business, it's the share prices can be more volatile because the liquidity isn't always there. So you have one big seller or one big buyer, and the share price gets dislocated.
[00:42:10] But that's, that's a separate thing. We'll be using that to our advantage. To the extent we think it creates one, but yeah, the businesses need to be stable. That's, that's what we're really looking for.
[00:42:21] Stacy Havener: So then why the 2 billion capacity constraint? Because typically, so I love it by the way, and I think allocators love it, and I think
[00:42:30] Ben Beneche: mm-hmm.
[00:42:30] It's
[00:42:30] Stacy Havener: a big. Driver for a lot of fund managers to start their own business because they want to be alpha generators, not asset gatherers. So all of that aligns.
[00:42:41] Ben Beneche: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:42] Stacy Havener: And so does it relate to market cap or what's the sort of, okay.
[00:42:46] Ben Beneche: Yeah, they relate to market cap and liquidity. We've tried to be relatively intentional and thoughtful.
[00:42:51] Mm-hmm. About it. So we've looked at our investible universe. I mean the number of listed companies globally is something like 40,000, [00:43:00] right? And then you've got a Mag seven who represent a third of 60 or 65% of the market. Um, so there's clearly more opportunities by name than there are by market cap.
[00:43:12] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:43:12] Ben Beneche: That is definitional and will will always be the way, and we want to be able to exploit that inefficiency. But equally speaking, we haven't structured the fund in such a way that we have five year lockups or 10 year lockups for capa. Mm. We have, we have monthly liquidity. So you don't, I don't know how familiar you are with what happened with Neil Woodford and the like, but you don't want to have a situation where you have a, let's say a liquidity mismatch between.
[00:43:39] The client capital and the fund investments. So we've tried to marry the two. We've thought about what our real investible universe is, how large we'd like it to be. Mm-hmm. In order to exploit the alpha opportunities that we see. And then we've thought, you know, at capacity we'd want to be able to liquidate 80% within 10 business days and [00:44:00] worked, worked back from there.
[00:44:01] And we gotta, that's very
[00:44:03] Stacy Havener: thoughtful answer and I think. One of the other unintended consequences or derivative effects of what we've just lived through over the past 10 years, which is stocks go up. That's just what they do, is that mm-hmm. Those asset liability mismatches become so much more hidden. Yes.
[00:44:25] Investors don't actually realize. Yeah, they're not even thinking about that. And maybe even fund managers, hopefully not, but, but to a, you know, you see so much product come out that's like, oh, we have, you know, daily liquidity and we're investing in, um, private credit. And it's like, okay, that seems like a really ticking time
[00:44:45] Ben Beneche: off.
[00:44:45] I mean, it would appear that there's even a liquidity problem on the private side of things. Yeah. You know, the point at which you have to sell to yourself and continuation funds and the like. It's, uh, there's a question mark there, in my opinion.
[00:44:58] Stacy Havener: I think so,
[00:44:58] Ben Beneche: but yeah, it's certainly [00:45:00] something people in Publix need to be very wary of.
[00:45:03] Yeah, I, I guess most people, you know, they're thinking that'll be a problem when it's a problem and deal with it then. Yeah.
[00:45:09] Stacy Havener: Yeah. Fascinating. Okay, so I wanna go back to the entrepreneurship a little bit, and you shared some. Sort of reflection on things that you didn't know. I can't remember the exact word you used, but I remember feeling very, very seen because you're sort of like, oh, I'm so naive.
[00:45:28] You know, looking back, I didn't even know what I was getting into. Maybe we wouldn't have made the decisions if we, hopefully we would've. But what other, you know, for, for other. Fund managers or really any entrepreneur who's sitting there thinking about doing this. But let's, let's keep it specific to the fund side of things.
[00:45:49] Like what, what would you, what advice do you have for them or what things do you wish you had known then that you know now?
[00:45:57] Ben Beneche: Yeah, I mean, I [00:46:00] would say, you know, I talked a little bit about the context in which we, we launched Tobe. Mm-hmm. We had this sort of. Wonderful backing from, from friends and colleagues and the like, and I think getting that context right is.
[00:46:16] Is absolutely critical. And it doesn't just, it's not just a capital thing. It extends to even your personal life.
[00:46:23] Yeah.
[00:46:24] Ben Beneche: You, you have to, you have to try and find a way to bring as much stability to what is an inherently less stable. Kind of situation and that's the only way you're gonna be able to operate a hundred percent capacity and do things, do things the right way, and with a long term view and not take, you'll probably end up with some forks in the road and the temptation the devil on your shoulder to potentially take an easy win, which may divert you from the whole point.
[00:46:55] Of the enterprise. And when that, when that happens, you need to sort of [00:47:00]remind yourself why you're doing it. You need to have a structure that allows you to have some, some fortitude. And it's much easier if you've got, you know, this love and support of your family and, and everything else that goes, that goes along with it.
[00:47:11] But I would honestly say write down your wife. Have. Have it on a piece of paper. Yeah.
[00:47:17] And
[00:47:18] Ben Beneche: remind yourself intermittently whether there's an opportunity which may not be quite right, or whether you're just feeling like it's all a bit difficult. It's, it's, if you've got that, why everything's, everything's a bit more straightforward, in my opinion.
[00:47:30] Stacy Havener: It's easy to forget it, it's easy to get distracted by shiny objects and big checks and things that mm-hmm. Maybe seem too good to be true, which usually are. Yeah.
[00:47:40] Ben Beneche: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:41] Stacy Havener: And I wanna end with some questions. You've been great. You've been so candid. Thank you for this. I wanna end, I wanna end with some questions that, um, let us get to know you a little bit more.
[00:47:55] This is, this is patterned very loosely after Pro's questionnaire.
[00:47:59] [00:48:00] Yes.
[00:48:00] Stacy Havener: And I'm gonna start with an easy one, which actually for people who like to read, is maybe not that easy, which is what book inspires you?
[00:48:09] Ben Beneche: This was not an easy one.
[00:48:11] Stacy Havener: No,
[00:48:12] Ben Beneche: this was not an easy one. Uh, can I pick a couple? Yes, of course.
[00:48:16] Course. Is that, is that allowed? Of course. Exactly. Alright, fine. I didn't know how strict you're gonna be about this quick fire thing. Uh, I would, there's a book called Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert. Fabulous
[00:48:27] Stacy Havener: book. Yes. Uh,
[00:48:28] Ben Beneche: which is one of my favorite. You know, it's a story of a father and a son.
[00:48:31] It's sort of semi-auto. Biograph biographical. It's not, got, not got much to do with Zen. Not got much to do with motorcycles, but it touches on a few key themes. Uh, one of them is just the general idea of quality. What is quality? And for me, you know, that that really resonated and I. Tried to made me raise the bar, uh, personally as to what is, what is good.
[00:48:56] Uh, and then a few ideas about sort of [00:49:00] classical, uh, and romantic thinking. So like left brain, like right brain type of thinking. I love that. And I've, I've, as I've, you know, matured as an investor and got a bit more experience, I've, I've come to appreciate the right side of the brain when it comes to investing, uh, a lot more.
[00:49:17] And that, that book certainly helped in that regard. Uh. Yes, do a second book of course, on, I've gotta do an investment one. And it's not original, but it's just true. Uh, the buffet letters. Ah, and the, the Larry Cunning, the Larry Cunningham compilation of them, you know, is, is absolutely fantastic. Whenever we have interns or young graduates come through, that is, that is always the first, the first port of call, and I still think it's the best, even though.
[00:49:45] It's not, it's not original. It just is.
[00:49:47] Stacy Havener: It's okay. It doesn't have to be original. It's classic.
[00:49:50] Ben Beneche: Yeah.
[00:49:51] Stacy Havener: Right. Those are great. And also a really nice juxtaposition of left brain, right brain in your book choices too. Okay, so switching from [00:50:00] books to places. Yes. What place inspires you? What's your, I think
[00:50:05] Ben Beneche: you might know the answer to this
[00:50:06] Stacy Havener: one.
[00:50:06] I think I know where it's going.
[00:50:08] Ben Beneche: Yeah, it's a, it's a place in France called Chani. Yeah. It's about an hour drive from. Geneva Airport. Um, it's a ski resort, but resort's probably the wrong name. It's still very much a town, and it's in the middle of a valley. You've got the BLO range on one side, so when you're in the valley, it feels like you're surrounded by a, by a landscape like a Monet or something.
[00:50:31] It's absolutely beautiful. It also happens to be a place I proposed to my wife. Oh, um, so, you know.
[00:50:41] Stacy Havener: A lot of meaning. Yes. And is this where you were just skiing and we're walking up? Let's just kind of. Let everybody in to our green room chat because you were like, oh, I was doing some really adventurous stuff, to which I said, oh, are you jumping out of a helicopter?
[00:50:55] And you were like the opposite.
[00:50:58] Ben Beneche: I like the walking up part. Yeah. [00:51:00] So the French, you know. The French are very good at infrastructure. The, the trains and the trams and all of that kind of thing are pretty, are pretty, pretty handy. So they have this one lift, which is unlike anything I've seen in any resort anywhere else in the world, which goes up to almost the top of, it's called the.
[00:51:19] And there are no ski runs down. You just either go and you see the view or you do sort of backcountry type skiing and climbing and that sort of thing. And it, it means you don't need to spend the money on a helicopter and you get to the same place.
[00:51:34] Stacy Havener: That's basically, oh my gosh. That's amazing. Okay, next up, I really am quite.
[00:51:41] Intrigued by what this answer's gonna be. Next up. Okay, you are speaking to th you know, a thousand of your true fans in a stadium. And you're about to take, you're about to walk out. What song do they play?
[00:51:57] Ben Beneche: Oh, yeah,
[00:51:58] Stacy Havener: as you walk out, Anthem.
[00:51:59] Ben Beneche: Uh, [00:52:00] I had to think about this one too. Uh, so yeah. My taste in music these days is sort of, it's very eclectic.
[00:52:10] I play a classical guitar. I, I i, if it's, if it's before like 1900, it's like, if it's post 1900, it's like contemporary to me. So I am, I'm not gonna go down that route 'cause it's not great stadium music. No. Uh, but uh, I'd say Red Hot Chili Peppers, uh, parallel universe. Was one, I was in a band in high school.
[00:52:33] I played the guitar and I was basically a tribute Red Hot Chili Peppers band, and that song is my favorite. Anyone who's particularly interested, I would say the Slain Castle version. I. The live version is awesome. Uh, John Ante is the best
[00:52:49] Stacy Havener: rock. Okay, wait. So timeout. Yeah. Why is this not in your backstory?
[00:52:53] Ben Beneche: What now? I was in a band.
[00:52:54] Stacy Havener: Yeah. And that you play, did you just say you play the guitar and then Yeah. There were so many things that [00:53:00] happened right there. Let's just pause.
[00:53:01] Alright.
[00:53:02] Stacy Havener: You basically dropped in there that you play the classical. Yeah. And now you've dropped in that you were in a band that was actually Red Hot Chili Peppers tribute band,
[00:53:13] Ben Beneche: pretty much.
[00:53:14] Stacy Havener: Then you did the hand sign for like basically metal.
[00:53:17] Ben Beneche: Yeah.
[00:53:17] Stacy Havener: Yeah. So what's going on here? This needs to be in your backstory. We gotta work on this.
[00:53:22] Ben Beneche: I mean, I will say this, all my friends will say this about me. I've, uh, I had a lot of hobbies growing up and I still. I have less. I've got family and kids and all the rest.
[00:53:34] It's a bit tougher these days and a second child in the business.
[00:53:37] Yeah.
[00:53:38] Ben Beneche: Uh, but you know, a defining feature of me, probably if you talk to my high school friends is getting really, really into stuff and just getting obsessed. Yeah. And the guitar has stuck around my whole life. Basically. I played from the age of sort of.
[00:53:56] Five or six and um, it's still [00:54:00] something I try and do as much as I can. Um, yeah, so I love it. I absolutely love it.
[00:54:05] Okay.
[00:54:05] Ben Beneche: I got in trouble. Uhoh, this is an aside in high school. My rebel side.
[00:54:10] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:54:11] Ben Beneche: I'm not sure I should be saying this. It's fine. Yeah, fine. It's all right.
[00:54:14] Stacy Havener: It's fine.
[00:54:15] Ben Beneche: In my band. I don't know how much you know about the Red Hot Chili peppers, but in their early days they had a very distinct way of dressing or not dressing very much.
[00:54:25] And so, so I got in quite a lot of trouble with my buddies replicating their attire as a kid. Not sure why I said that story. I, but
[00:54:36] Stacy Havener: it,
[00:54:40] the reason that this is going to be in your backstory going forward is. Because it's so relatable. I mean, your backstory is great as as told, but I think we all have those things that we've done as kids. Mm-hmm. That were like a hobby that maybe it stuck or maybe it didn't, that we did something [00:55:00] really, you know, sort of, you wonder why,
[00:55:04] I mean, just
[00:55:04] Stacy Havener: so you don't like, I've, I've never said this to anyone in the investment industry except maybe like.
[00:55:10] Some team members. So when I, when I was in fifth grade, I took a break dancing class. But the funny thing, I mean, I don't even know if anyone care, so I took a break dancing class, which is hilarious because I cannot break dance to save my life. But the reason I wanted to do it is I thought it was so cool and the guys that taught the class were like, actually.
[00:55:34] Break dancers like on the street. If you went down North Street, you would see them on the corner with the cardboard and they'd be doing the windmills and all that stuff, and I just thought that was so cool. I just wanted to be part of it.
[00:55:48] I cut my hair. I cut my hair into a spike. A spike haircut. Can you imagine?
[00:55:57] Ben Beneche: I think you should break it back out. I think it would be. [00:56:00] It would definitely be distinctive.
[00:56:05] Stacy Havener: Oh yeah, we do,
[00:56:06] Ben Beneche: we do. We do interesting things in our teen years,
[00:56:08] Stacy Havener: don't we? So like that's the point. Everyone's been there. See you learn so much on billion dollar back story.
[00:56:13] Come on. Alright, here we go. Fantastic. What profession other than your own would you like to attempt?
[00:56:21] Ben Beneche: Um, I really do feel like incredibly lucky in so far as I think I found the one thing I actually like and may, may. May work for me. Right. I, I, I struggled with this one again because I, I think I've nailed that side of things, but if I had to do something else, I'd like to teach, um, I'd like to teach maybe the guitar actually.
[00:56:46] Oh, I
[00:56:46] Stacy Havener: love that. But.
[00:56:48] Ben Beneche: I, I've, we've done a few lectures and that sort of things with universities on investing, and I got, I got a huge amount of, you know, gratification from, from that side of things and, and being a [00:57:00] mentor to some younger people and maybe leaning into that would be, would be interesting.
[00:57:04] Stacy Havener: That's so great. All right. Flip side, what profession would you not like to do?
[00:57:09] Ben Beneche: Yeah, anything mono monotonous. I think the sort of beauty in most jobs. Uh, but the one thing I absolutely couldn't do is literally any job that involved doing the same thing day in, day out, doesn't matter what it is. Yeah, I, I've, I've got a.
[00:57:25] Threshold when it comes to,
[00:57:28] Stacy Havener: well, good news is that entrepreneurship, it's like a roller coaster before 9:00 AM so I mean, that's so you're in the right place. Mm-hmm. Okay. Last question.
[00:57:39] Ben Beneche: Mm.
[00:57:39] Stacy Havener: What do you want people to say about you? This is a long time from now, by the way. What do you want people to say about you after you've retired or left the industry?
[00:57:48] Ben Beneche: Yeah. I'd like a general feeling that I gave more than I took. Mm. Like, you know, and gave, sort of gave with, with wanting nothing in return, [00:58:00] but just, just because it was the right thing to do. And that would, that would hold with, with clients, people who trusted their capital with us. It would hold with colleagues, it would hold with people that we mentored.
[00:58:11] But I, I would really like people to feel that, you know, I gave. As much as I got, if not more. I mean, that would be, that would make me very happy. Uh, and along with that, you know, I would like a certain number of people, not a lot of people, but if, if someone was stuck in a third world jail cell Yeah. And they had one call to make, I, I'd like a few people to feel that I was that person.
[00:58:39] That would be nice.
[00:58:40] Stacy Havener: Wow. I love that answer and I will be thinking about that answer for a long time. Fantastic. Ben, you are such a joy to talk with and I feel very grateful to have you in my life. So thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
[00:58:56] Ben Beneche: Likewise, Stacy. It's been great.
[00:58:58] Stacy Havener: This podcast is for informational [00:59:00] purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions.
[00:59:04] The information is not an offer, solicitation, or recommendation of any of the funds, services, or products, or to adopt any investment strategy. Investment values may fluctuate and past performance is not a guide to future performance. All opinions expressed by guests on the show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their firm.
[00:59:23] Manager's appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement by Stacy Haven or Haven Capital Partners.
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