Episode 28: Value Investing Specialist Sean Peche of Ranmore Funds on Building a Boutique After Years at $35B Bigs | How Boutiques Will Win with a Different Playbook
Subscribe to Billion Dollar Backstory on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Let’s be real: boutique building is no walk in the park; it's a rollercoaster of gutsy moves and unexpected comebacks.
Today, we’re sitting down with a guest who knows all about that. Meet Sean Peche, a value investing specialist who's transitioned from the $35B big leagues to crafting his own firm.
In this episode, Sean and Stacy unpack:
His Backstory – how a volatile market led him to put his boutique-building dream on hold
His inspiring comeback story
The secrets behind Sean's unique marketing playbook for differentiation.
The philosophy that drives Sean's investing approach: 'numbers not narrative.'
The sweet spot where numbers and narratives intersect, especially for startups.
…And so much more. Grab your notebook and get ready for a masterclass on differentiation, branding, and building a boutique.
About Sean Peche:
Sean holds a Bachelor of Business Science (Honours) and a Post Graduate Diploma in Accounting from the University of Cape Town and is a CFA® charterholder. Sean has more than 25 years of investment experience in global financial markets.
After qualifying as a Chartered Accountant in 1996, Sean spent two years at Old Mutual Asset Management (South Africa) as an equity analyst. In 1999, he joined Decillion Capital as one of its founding members and co-managed the successful BigRock Fund, a South African based hedge fund. In 2001, he relocated to London with Decillion Fund Management and co-managed a US/European hedge Fund. In 2003, he joined London based Orbis Investment Advisory as an equity analyst, before leaving in 2008 to establish Ranmore Fund Management Ltd.
TRANSCRIPT
Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.
Stacy Havener: [00:00:00] If you want to compete with the bigs, there is a whole bunch of stuff you're never going to be able to compete with. Not the teams they build, not the budgets they have, not the army of salespeople, not the PR they can buy or the sponsorships, and you're never going to be able to touch that. But you can go toe to toe with them on thought leadership, but you have to get your thoughts out there.
Stacy Havener: I mean, LinkedIn is. It levels the playing field.
Sean Peche: That's a very good point. It does. And somebody once said to me, you know, put your best content out there. Because often people, you know, boutiques, they think, well, hang on, I'm not going to share my best ideas. Why would I want to share my best ideas? Yeah.
Sean Peche: People are going to plagiarize them and then, yeah, but that's how you get known.
Stacy Havener: Hey, my name is Stacey Havener. I'm obsessed with startups, stories, and sales. Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the toughest boys club, Wall Street. I've raised over 8 billion that has led to 30 billion in follow on assets for investment boutiques.[00:01:00]
Stacy Havener: You could say against the odds. Yeah. Understatement. I share stories of the people behind the portfolios while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes. It's real talk here. Money, authenticity, growth, setbacks, sales, and marketing are all topics we discuss. Think of this as the capital raising class you wish you had in college mixed with happy hour.
Stacy Havener: Pull up a seat, grab your notebook and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn. This is the billion dollar backstory podcast.
Stacy Havener: It takes courage to build an investment boutique knowing you are fighting against the odds. It also takes courage to build a boutique, then go back to the bigs, then reemerge to build a boutique again. It takes courage and humility. And [00:02:00] talent and resilience. Today's guest has all of that and more. Meet Sean Pesh, founder and fund manager at Ranmore Funds, a value investing specialist in the UK who does things differently.
Stacy Havener: Okay, don't roll your eyes. I mean it. This is different. Their philosophy. Their approach to value investing, the way they build their team, the way they show up for their clients and their friends, including ones they've met on LinkedIn. That's how I met Sean and I'm grateful for it. He's a brilliant investor, a kind spirit, a talented writer and storyteller.
Stacy Havener: That last one really makes me smile since his signature hashtag is numbers, not narrative. Maybe we seem like an odd pair to become friends, but isn't that part of the magic? Real knows real. [00:03:00] Today's episode is a masterclass in differentiation, branding, and building a boutique. I know you'll love it. Grab your notebook and let's dive in.
Stacy Havener: Meet my friend, Sean Pesch. Hello, everyone. And Sean Pesce. Welcome to the Billion Dollar Backstory Podcast Studio. It is a pleasure to have you with us, not only for me, because I'm psyched to learn more about you, but also because we've become friends. Thank you, LinkedIn. And I just know this conversation's gonna be magical.
Stacy Havener: And I'm so excited for all of our listeners to get a chance to be a fly on the air.
Sean Peche: Stacey, thank you so much for the opportunity of being here and also for all you do for Batiks. You know, we need champions like you out there and we are the future Black Rocks and of and vanguards and so thank you for all supporting us and encouraging
Stacy Havener: us.
Stacy Havener: That means the [00:04:00] world because that is my mission. There are a lot of specialists that deserve their turn in the spotlight, and you, my friend, are one of them. So, let's dive in. I mean, I always start with my favorite thing, which is, of course, The backstory your backstory and what I say to guests is you can go as far back as you want.
Stacy Havener: I think what's interesting as listeners and as you know, we all like to kind of see ourselves and other people's stories is. The parts of your story that maybe didn't make sense, right? Like, did you always set out knowing you wanted to be a fund manager, for instance? Like, was that your childhood dream?
Stacy Havener: So I'm gonna just kind of set the stage and let you take it where you're inspired
Sean Peche: to go. Yeah, great, Stacey. I mean, you know, I didn't have, um, A father who was a stockbroker or anything like that. In fact, I remember there was a program in South Africa where I grew up called Diagonal Street. And I guess it was a little bit like CNBC or [00:05:00] Bloomberg or one of those.
Sean Peche: And my dad actually, once I was at university and he said to me, do you know what an index is? I mean, he had no idea what an index is. He was just a businessman in marketing. And we used to watch Diagonal Street a little bit and it was quite interesting. And then when I was at university, he suddenly died.
Sean Peche: He had a heart attack and died when I was 20. And I had two younger siblings, a sister of 16 and a younger brother of 12 who was epileptic and also suffered from learning disabilities. And so my mum received a small insurance pout, but I felt a huge responsibility here in terms of supporting her and what we should do with this insurance.
Sean Peche: payout. And so we spoke to an advisor and he told us about mutual funds and I didn't really know much about them. And then I'd look in the mutual funds and see these companies. And I bought the thing called the JSE handbook. And I became increasingly interested as to what was happening here. And I was studying business science at the university of Cape town.
Sean Peche: And what's interesting is in South Africa, if you want to get into fund management, You need to be a chartered [00:06:00] accountant. And so that was the root. And it kind of makes sense because if we analyzing income statements and balance sheets and cash flow statements, you know, it helps if you've put them together.
Sean Peche: And so I graduated, I went to Deloitte. I started an investment club there. I spoke to a couple of stockbrokers and got them to send us our research. And, and I loved it. Actually, I really enjoyed my time, my three years at Deloitte doing articles. And then I left and joined one of the large Life insurers in South Africa, old mutual and the investment style was pretty much got growth at a reasonable price.
Sean Peche: And the first book I had to read, there was a book by Jim Slater called the Zulu principle and that talked about pig ratios. And so we, I had a A few very good years there, a couple of great calls. And of course, then you think you're a rock star. You think, Oh, well, I know the answer like 18 years old or whatever it was, 20, early twenties.
Sean Peche: I knew what the story was. Okay. I had the magic formula. So we left and we started a hedge fund with a few other guys and that went really well. [00:07:00] And then I came over to the UK. And of course, while you're doing the hedge fund, you know, you focused on absolute returns now because everything's monthly performance and all of that and had a rude awakening over here in the UK where we had, we launched a hedge fund, but it was the time of nine 11 and the market was quite volatile.
Sean Peche: And over the next year, we were down 2%. I think the market was down 20. And the seed capital, they wanted their money back. And so it was then that I pretty much left and joined Orbis. And Orbis were, was a fantastic company. And the founder of Orbis was the late Alan Gray. And he'd worked at Fidelity in the 60s.
Sean Peche: And had gone back to South Africa, set up this company, Alan Gray limited with amazing results and had emigrated from South Africa in the late eighties and established Orbis and Orbis run, you know, Alan Gray runs some 35 billion and I think dollars today and Orbis something similar. [00:08:00] So hugely successful and at Orbis, I felt that I was going back to school.
Sean Peche: You know, I had this experience of the hedge fund over here. It was tough and I went back to school and they, you know, fantastic investors, but I felt after five years I'd learned what I was going to learn and I wanted to row my own boat. And that's really when I established Randall with a good friend of mine, Richard Pitt.
Stacy Havener: So that's super interesting because oftentimes, and thank you. Well, first let me say thank you for sharing the story about your childhood and your father and kind of the why, how you ended up here, because I do think that that's something. People in our industry don't often share, and it helps us understand what drives you.
Stacy Havener: And even for me, knowing some of the things that you work on now from a charity perspective and things you're involved with, like, I can just see these threats. So thank you for sharing that. The other thing that was interesting to me in your backstory is, oftentimes, A boutique is started by [00:09:00] an individual who has spent their whole career, basically, working for the bigs, right?
Stacy Havener: They've been working for these big companies, they've been successful, and then they get this itch to be an entrepreneur and sort of tired of working for the man and all the red tape and all that crap, and they want to go set up their own shop. What's interesting in your story, and I wonder if we can unpack this a bit, is you were actually You kind of went in reverse there for a second, didn't you?
Stacy Havener: Because you were an entrepreneur, then you went back to a big, and then you came back out. That's
Sean Peche: right, Stacey. Yeah. Yeah, you are right. And it was quite a humbling time. You know, I've gone from, I mean, my first call at Old Mitchell, the share price went up, I mean, it went up nine times. Okay. And that was my first call.
Sean Peche: Everybody thought I was, you know, as I said, a rock star. And then when the hedge fund, it was really good. And then we had a tough time and I sort of went back to school. But I'm very fortunate because at each of those places, I learned a couple of key things. And every time I've [00:10:00] worked with some superstars, you know, you kind of take, what am I going to learn from that person?
Sean Peche: What am I going to learn from that person? And then you put that together and this is your, you know, quiver full of arrows and you've got an arrow from each, from each place. And so, you know, I learned about charts and technicals when I was involved in the hedge fund. And I've brought that into what we do today, which is quite unique in the area of value investing.
Sean Peche: I mean, some people who tell me, you know, that's like reading the tea leaves, but for me, it's very useful because it helps, helps me understand or helps us understand supply and demand. And I don't want to sit in the wilderness by myself. When nobody else is interested in something. So yeah, I've been very fortunate in working with some super smart people along the way.
Sean Peche: Fabulous people. Many of them are still very, very good friends of mine, and it's great. I
Stacy Havener: love that. Taking little, you know, golden nuggets from all the places and then making it your own, kind of putting your own spin on it, which I love. And it is a great dovetail to one of my favorite things to [00:11:00] work with boutiques on.
Stacy Havener: And that is what makes you different. Now, of course, everybody says, you know, they call them competitive advantages or whatnot. I think that when you really get down to what makes you different and unique, it actually isn't so much about competition at that point, it puts you in a place where you compliment Managers, even in your own asset class, like if you can really hone in on your uniques and your differentiators, it makes you a fabulous compliment to everyone because it puts you in a category of one and you teed up something there, a differentiator as a value investor related to the technicals.
Stacy Havener: But I'd love for you to talk a little bit about, you know, value investing. Something so classic, but what do you do that is different?
Sean Peche: Yeah, what we do that is different. I mean, I guess just to take a step back. The one thing that was interesting is my mom's experience [00:12:00] and the fact that she had this pot of money to invest really gave me a sense of the importance of our role in society.
Sean Peche: I mean, we are not just chasing benchmarks and all the rest. There are people's lives on the other side of that. And there are people, you know, pensions and insurance policies. And if we mess up because we Of buying stuff that's at crazy prices, you know, the ramifications people's lives. So it really did give me a sense of that.
Sean Peche: And I think, you know, at Randall, that's what we want to do. We want to do the right thing for our clients. And of course, everybody says that, yeah, but we make got to make sensible decisions. With their money. And so what we try and do is just invest like astute business people would invest. And we've got lots of, um, very high net worth individuals who, and entrepreneurs who are clients of ours.
Sean Peche: And when I sit down and I say, look, I just approach shares that are listed in the same way as you would approach buying a company. You know, out there in the real world and they go, but does, doesn't everybody do that? I don't know. No, no, no. Most people know asset [00:13:00] managers. Once they, I mean, they're not called asset gatherers for no reason.
Sean Peche: You know, so they focus on get once they've got the assets, don't lose them. And so how do you not lose them? Well, you try and stick close to the benchmark because that's what everybody focuses on. But I think there's been way too much focus on benchmarks. Clients don't live in benchmarks. Okay. If your benchmark goes down 20 percent and we go down 18%, that's not a good outcome.
Sean Peche: People are going to, you know, people's retirements are going to be affected by that. And benchmarks don't only rise. And I think that's what's been forgotten. In recent times with Q. E. I mean, in the last 15 years, if the year ended today in the last 15 years, the 500 will have been up double digits. And it's just a little bit of poetic license.
Sean Peche: 9. that as double digits. 11 years out of 15 and only down double digits one. And that was last year. So you can imagine that as advisors reporting back to clients in the 1st quarter this year, About [00:14:00] 2022, and it was a horrible experience for most by then, by the time they were reporting back AI had come and saved the day and stocks were up.
Sean Peche: So they could say, look, we had a terrible year last year, but don't worry. Things are up this year. So people have not felt pain. Okay. And so we don't care about the benchmark. We invest in sensible assets and buy companies that we think make sense. And we don't charge performance fees. That's a differentiator.
Sean Peche: Certainly amongst many of our peers in South Africa. We don't think performance fees in the interests of clients. You don't go to the doctor and if they heal you, you pay them a performance fee. You don't pay a performance fee to an architect. Because the house didn't fall down, you know, we are just, you pay a fair fee and that's, we think, and it's your money.
Sean Peche: Why on earth should I take some money? I mean, why should it be an incentive for me? You're telling me I'm not going to get up as early. I couldn't work more hours in the day. I don't need more incentives to turn a performance fee. So, and we laser focused on valuation and expected returns. There was an interesting story.
Sean Peche: A friend of mine is a fund manager and shall remain nameless. And I said to him the [00:15:00] other day, Some months back, what company do you like? And he told me, he said, it's a great business, wonderful business. I said, yes, but what's got to happen? It's a great business. I agree. But what's got to happen for me to earn a double digit return on investment?
Sean Peche: And he said, what do you mean? So I said, well, what's it got to earn? And what's the exit multiple got to be? He said, I don't know. I've never thought about that. And so the thing is, there's been such a focus on, is it a wonderful business? Is it a wonderful business? Okay. That people haven't said, well, yeah, but can I make a decent return from that placement at this price?
Sean Peche: Okay. And I think that's the thing. So, you know, some of the other things that make us different is we leave conviction to convicts. You won't hear us say, Oh, I have high conviction because that introduces a bias. And all of a sudden, if I write in the fact sheet, I've got high conviction about this thing and something changes.
Sean Peche: Now it's tricky for me to change my mind and tell, you know, I've just written about it. I can't possibly sell it. I told everybody last month I had conviction. Okay. So we leave conviction to convict. Anything can happen. I've been around long enough, grown up in emerging markets. [00:16:00] I know things can come out of nowhere.
Sean Peche: And because of that, we don't care about turnover. And that also makes us quite different. I think that clients should want high turnover, because if you've got high turnover, it means you're getting a fresh portfolio. If you buy a buy and hold long term fund, That is done well, and you're buying after good performance, you buying their portfolio of shares at the highest, what you want is you want to process, and then they're rotating so that when you come in as a new investor, you've got a fresh portfolio of, you know.
Sean Peche: Things that the fund manager thinks are going to do well from here. So, you know, we don't need management. I think it's an inefficient use of time. And I'd rather evaluate management by saying, well, this manager joined or the CEO 2018. What is return on assets done since then? Have they gone up? What have they done with margins?
Sean Peche: Have they made sensible decisions that by You know, crazy acquisitions at crazy prices. Did they panic and, you know, succumb to pressure and buy at the top of the [00:17:00] cycle? Were they prudent and paid off debt during low interest rate environments rather than ramping up to buy back stock and juice the share auctions?
Sean Peche: You see, so we evaluate management like that. But what we also do differently is for as value managers, you know, people that this coming back to your question, there's this perception that value managers buy these horrible businesses. They're not great. They like nasty, you know, steel mills and dirty and nonsense.
Sean Peche: We all want quality and we all want growth. We just very focused as to how much we pay for them. And so you can look at a company like sketches. I mean, it's an amazing brand. It's growing. I've yet to meet somebody who only has what he's got. He's got a pair of sketches, but only has one pair. And yet this company has grown much faster.
Sean Peche: Multiples of the rate over the last 10 years as Nike. I mean, it's hitting you. It's hitting new highs at the moment. And how many consumer discretionary stocks are hitting you high? So they are great businesses that it's a third largest [00:18:00] footwear. Brand in the world. And it's, you know, market caps, less than 10 billion.
Sean Peche: So here you've got a great, exciting business, but we're not paying too much for paying less than a market multiple. I mean, a substantial discount to market, to be honest. So those are the kind of things we do differently. Yeah. And it's worked well for us.
Stacy Havener: Yes. I love that. And, you know, what you did there, in some ways, was a bit of a masterclass, which you might not have even realized you were giving, because you just naturally went to what makes you different.
Stacy Havener: But that can be very challenging for people. To get in touch with because when people say, well, what do you do different the emphasis is on do so you're like, well, I do this and I do that. And when really what you did the master class part of this was, you said, this is what my peers do. That's column a.
Stacy Havener: And I am going to show you why I do something different than them. So it's what I don't do. [00:19:00] And that is a really great way to get to the core of what is unique about your strategy. Because you said, here's what all, you know, the typical value manager will do. And here's what I do. Not that. And here's why I I do it my way.
Stacy Havener: That was great. Oh, thanks. So, yeah, very, very well done. There's also a little gem in there that I want to come back to, because you said you don't meet with management. And I smile because I also know, being your friend on LinkedIn, that one of your hashtags, probably like your signature hashtag, if there's such a thing, is numbers not narrative.
Stacy Havener: Which when I asked you to be on the podcast, I said, just want to make sure we're on the same page because I'm probably the opposite. I'm narrative before numbers. So I know we're going to have a good chat about that, but I'm curious. Is that why you don't meet with management? Because [00:20:00] you feel like it's just a whole bunch of spin.
Sean Peche: Yeah. I mean, in fact, I can tell you my worst calls have been the ones where I've spoken to management because all of a sudden you get sucked in. I mean, really the worst calls I'd rather be totally unbiased. Okay. Imagine you the CEO and now things are falling apart and I go, no, we can't sell Stacy's a great CEO and she's brilliant and are a good person.
Sean Peche: I don't want that. You know, things are falling apart. I'll see it in the numbers and I'm out. And I think that, you know, you've got to understand as well is that management, if you've got the top. Of your game as a global leader, you've been pretty good at selling yourself. You know, you've sold yourself all the way through interviews.
Sean Peche: You've sold yourself in divisions, etc. And now you're going to sell yourself to young analysts. And so, you know, I look, we read conference school transcripts. So that's how I engage. You hear what management has to say. And actually, the other thing is also think it's disingenuous because sometimes most often the person, you know, you speak, I would speak to management.
Sean Peche: No, you're speaking to [00:21:00] investor relations. Okay. That's all right. Yeah. And occasionally you'll get to meet management at a conference, but when you're a young analyst, you're in all of these people. I mean, they're at the top of their game and you know, they think they know, they'll tell you that they know the future and all of the race.
Sean Peche: So we'd just rather be unbiased. We don't like biases and we try and avoid biases in whichever way. And keeps us, you know, It keeps us on the straight and narrow. So yeah, so the numbers not narrative that is from the perspective of I focus in on the numbers and I'll tell you there's one important point here and it took me a while to realize it and that is if you attach yourself to the narrative.
Sean Peche: Okay, if I attach myself to the numbers, let's talk about the numbers first and things start falling apart. I can see it. Okay. And therefore I can see it there. Revenue starts falling, margins start declining, free cash flow evaporates, debt goes up, whatever. I can see it in the numbers. If I attach myself to the narrative, how do I know when I'm wrong?
Sean Peche: Because I could have said that wind is going to solve the problem because it's windy and day and night so that's only sunny in the day. [00:22:00] It is windier in winter when we need power for central heating and all of that stuff. So wind is the future. Right. So I've now attached myself to the narrative. I'm down 80 percent on those wind stocks in the last two years.
Sean Peche: You know, let's say you say, well, the narrative is. Electronic payments, the future. Great. He has this company PayPal. Great. Let's go buy it. I'm down 70 percent on PayPal in the last couple of years. And electronic payments is still a future and wind is still going to play an important role. But how do I know that I'm wrong?
Sean Peche: Because that's narrative is still in place, but the numbers have changed substantially. So by attaching yourself By focusing on the numbers, I know when I'm wrong and part of the secret sauce in this, as many of the gurus, look at George Soros and Paul Cheetah Jones and Bruce Kovner and all those guys.
Sean Peche: Okay. All that talk about is, I mean, what did George Soros say? I'm rich because I know when I'm wrong. And that
Stacy Havener: is it. We'll be back in a moment after a word from our premier brand partner, Ultimis Fund Solutions.[00:23:00]
Sean Peche: Since our founding in 1989, we believe that alternative investments are integral part of client portfolios.
Stacy Havener: Unfortunately, delivering
Sean Peche: high quality hedge funds and private market exposures has always been a challenge for the wealth management industry. These type of alternative investments introduce unique challenges related to taxes, qualifications, paperwork, and reporting.
Sean Peche: As a result, high net worth investors tend to be significantly under allocated to both hedge funds and private markets relative to institutional
Stacy Havener: investors. That's Stephanie Lang, Chief Investment Officer from Homeric Berg, an 11 billion RIA headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, that serves over 2, 700 clients in 46 states.
Stacy Havener: You can tell they believe in helping high net worth clients access hedge funds and other alternative investments. They are equally as passionate about broadening that access for all their clients, [00:24:00] not just qualified purchasers or a select group of accredited investors. Meet Nick Darsh from Ultimis with some backstory.
Stacy Havener: Hall
Sean Peche: McBurg created a 3C1 fund in January 1999 to provide their high net worth. And institutional investors with ready access to a diversified portfolio of hedge funds. As interest in the fund grew and the constraint of the a hundred investor rule loomed, HB began exploring ways to continue expanding the investor pool without negatively affecting existing shareholders.
Stacy Havener: We'll hear more about the creative fund conversion work that made it possible later in the show. Now, back to the program.
Stacy Havener: And didn't he also say though that like he got a pain in his back or something before he would sell stocks?
Sean Peche: Yeah, because there was this sort of subconscious stress. Yeah, totally. You know, it was just [00:25:00] in there.
Stacy Havener: Yeah. But you know, here's why it's funny. So when we were chatting about, you know, coming together on the show, I think what we realized is we're both sort of narrative and numbers.
Stacy Havener: It's just. Well, there's 2 different context, but also, I think we have a different order in how we approach them. What I find interesting and maybe different about the seats that we're in is that you as an investor in businesses, primary goal being, you know, as you said. Buy great companies generate return, have fresh portfolios, all those things.
Stacy Havener: That is the way, you know, that is definitely part of it. You could argue. There's some narrative probably to that. Maybe shows up in technicals, but I don't want to go to, like, in the weeds because I don't actually know. That's just a thought. But what's interesting is. That investors allocators aren't buying numbers the same way you are, [00:26:00] even though I think that's the perception.
Stacy Havener: And I will say that, especially for boutiques and emerging managers, because. there probably aren't a lot of numbers for them to analyze. So now it's almost like being, you know, sort of a VC or a startup investor or something. It's like, look, as an early adopter, am I buying a fund or am I hiring a human?
Stacy Havener: And that to me is maybe the difference because in, and I don't know how that applies as a stock picker. I mean, I could see both sides of that story. However, I think as an allocator, you know, when I'm listening to you, The data for me is a proof point. It shows me that what I'm believing is right, as opposed to being the leading indicator for me to then understand more, if that makes sense.
Stacy Havener: So I'm buying you and your philosophy and that you're different and that I believe [00:27:00] it will work and I might be wrong, but that's my starting point. Then when I look at your returns, I go, well, hell yeah. I mean, and it's working. So it's a little different, but maybe, I don't know, is it?
Sean Peche: Uh, no, I think you're absolutely right.
Sean Peche: I mean, I'd always, you know, we'd never people, it's interesting because I've sort of this last year have pivoted to focusing on the local market here in the UK. And although I'm based in the UK, I was spending most of my time marketing back in, you know, my country where I grew up in South Africa. And that was an error.
Sean Peche: And so now I've focused here, you know, I'd always thought that if you generate the numbers, the assets will flow and we've generated the numbers, you know, in the top couple of percent. Of fund managers since we started back in 2008 and we've done that without an army of, you know, Harvard MBAs. So you can't just rely on the numbers to find you clients.
Sean Peche: Yeah, you've got to tell your story. And I've been enormously grateful to LinkedIn for allowing me and providing a platform to do that and to meet great [00:28:00] storytellers like you. I mean, I loved your. Your podcast on how to tell a story. And I think that it does resonate. Now I've tried to do that. And in fact, I wrote a piece on, on one of our chaps, Tim Barney and how he came to join us.
Sean Peche: And it was different. Um, it was very different to what I'd written, but wow. I mean, the comments that I've received and the results being quite overwhelming and How many thousands of impressions at hand and private messages I've received and all the rest. And I'm going, well, actually, just this, I just said, this is who we are.
Sean Peche: And this is kind of a little story I wasn't trying. There was no agenda and saying, look at this. Hey, this is the story. And actually what I try to do there. Is encourage other employers and encourage, you know, it's a tricky time out there right now for graduates and all the rest and encourage graduates to be resilient and listen to read Tim Barney story and just find out how resilient the sky was, you know, I mean, it was, it's just phenomenal and so if you're a graduate, don't worry, listen, you're going to get rejected and you know what, if you start your own business, you're going to get rejected as [00:29:00] well and what you you got to take that rejection and energize it and say, you know what, It's their loss.
Sean Peche: Right. Let me go and find my next opportunity because trying to, what's the word, taking that harnessing that power to say, I'm going to just show you, you didn't want to trust me to generate performance. You come and watch. Okay. I'll be in a show you in 10 years time. And I do that. And that's actually quite powerful.
Sean Peche: It's an energizing form of energy. Really.
Stacy Havener: I love that that chip on the shoulder. Don't underestimate it. Somebody with a chip on their shoulder
Sean Peche: And I wouldn't intend that Well, but
Stacy Havener: you know it is a little bit right because it like you said It's the idea that look I relate to this very very much As a female in this business that also didn't go to the fancy schools that also didn't you know?
Stacy Havener: Get a degree in economics Like that doesn't mean I can't succeed here And how dare you suggest otherwise, but by the way, if you do, you're just adding fuel to the fire. So it [00:30:00] is very inspiring to hear that. And so let's go back to Tembani for a second, because I wanted to bring this up. In the context of what you do differently, and you just brought it up, so this is perfect because one of the things that is different qualitatively about you and the team at Randmore is your people.
Stacy Havener: Now, everyone likes to say that, right? Like, Oh, our people, you know, let's do that same thing. Like, what do most investment firms look for in their team? And, you know, you don't do that. What do you do instead?
Sean Peche: I mean, I think there's a sense that if you get the smartest people from the best business schools, okay, they are the guys who are going to produce the best results.
Sean Peche: My experience has been that the smartest people from the best businesses can't believe they ever get things wrong. Okay. They've just succeeded all the way through life and they can't. Believe they get it wrong. Well, the stats are most fund managers. I mean, even if you get 50 percent of your calls [00:31:00] wrong, you know, that's probably average.
Sean Peche: And so here you take the smartest people who don't believe they're going to get anything wrong. And actually they're going to get 50 percent wrong. How are they going to cope with that? They're going to struggle. They're going to hunker down and they're going to go, forget it. I'm right. Mark, it's wrong.
Sean Peche: And that's where they're going to get crushed. And so we don't think we're the smartest guys on the planet. I'm certainly not the smartest guy on the team. There's a good few members of my team who way smarter than me. So we quite humble. Okay. We like to think we humble, but we unbelievably resilient. You know, we are a small firm that didn't capitulate during that value winter.
Sean Peche: And when we had clients leaving and, you know, shareholders capitulating at the bottom, we said, that's it. We are doing what we think is right. And that's it. And so we unbelievably resilient and we're going to prove the world. Yeah, we're going to not wrong, but we're going to. Yeah. So that, so I just want to find, I mean, this is the other thing, Stacy, for a small business, I want to manage money.
Sean Peche: I don't want to manage people. So if I don't want to manage people, I've got to have people who have amazing attitude and who are, you know, [00:32:00] who will just pick up the ball and run. Cause I don't have time to, to manage them. I don't need difficult egos pounding the table saying I deserve a higher bonus or a bigger bonus.
Sean Peche: Those people will not last, but my team know that when we are large and big, they will, you know, they will be extremely well remunerated, but we're doing the right things. And so how do we, you know, people just find me. I mean, I'm delighted. I'm grateful to LinkedIn for 10 Barney. He found me and he didn't send me an email saying, listen, Sean, I want an internship.
Sean Peche: Can I have a job? He actually just happened to like My posts at seven o'clock on a Sunday morning and a couple of them, I could see from the notifications he was going through my posts. I thought, well, this is, and then I looked him up. He's a student. What's going on here at seven o'clock. That's eight o'clock in South Africa on a Sunday morning.
Sean Peche: He's reading my posts. So I sent him a little note. And then he asked me if I could perhaps just to say thanks to, if, uh, if I could read. A report that he'd written, and he'd been trying to, he'd written a report on PayPal, and, you know, it was, it was like a [00:33:00] stockbroker's report, he had the logos, and he had the porters, models, uh, forces, and all of that, and it was a good effort, but in the opening paragraph, I'd read that he had run out of money.
Sean Peche: He left university and he still was trying to teach himself how to write these things using LinkedIn. And, uh, so he said, all right, listen, we'll put you through, we'll, you know, settle your outstanding bill at university. We'll put you through, you know, the next year university and come work for us. I'd never met him.
Sean Peche: It was all via LinkedIn, just, just by the words and how he'd written and how humble he was and whereas I hadn't spoken to, we hadn't had a zoom meeting, nothing. And I just thought, what's my upside here? What's my downside. I'm helping somebody who's key. Okay. Who's just fought the odds and is still in the game.
Sean Peche: And what's my upside. This could be the best investment I've ever made. I mean, that's just asymmetry. You know, he's just one of us
Stacy Havener: and so there's always a moment in a podcast where I want to throw my own mic because the guest [00:34:00] says something so amazing. That's it for me. That's
Sean Peche: so good. So yeah, so he's graduated first in his family and it's just a joy.
Sean Peche: So I've obviously traveled out to South Africa and since met Tim Barney and he's just the nicest guy and that's what you want. I think entrepreneurs, you want. Nice guys who with a great attitude can do and off they go. And if you find the right person with the right attitude and they're willing to learn, I mean, you're onto a winner.
Stacy Havener: Absolutely. You know, the other thing that's cool about that story, there's so many cool things about that story, but. The LinkedIn piece, super interesting, you know, I think a lot of people who turn to LinkedIn or sort of decide they want to use LinkedIn do it for business reasons. Like, you know, I'm going to find clients there and all that's very true.
Stacy Havener: But I have been really surprised at. What a powerful tool it is to attract teammates because, you know, you're talking about what matters and your, your posts are [00:35:00] so great. And you go through a stock or you tell a story about something with lots of numbers, of course. And so people get a sense of what. You believe in your philosophy and how you show up and if they vibe with that, it's such a natural magnet to attract teammates just as much as it is to attract clients, don't you
Sean Peche: think?
Sean Peche: Yeah, I think so, Stacey. It's amazing. And you know, I mean, what you won't see us do is shop from the rooftops. Oh, we've just been awarded, you know, five stars from Morningstar or whatever, you know, we all pull out enough of that stuff. And I did. I mean, it serves a few purposes. Actually, the one is. I just thought I'm going to just put my ideas out there, you know, I'm sick and tired of seeing all this other clinical stuff that's been, you know, sanitized really that everybody puts out, but also crystallizes my thoughts.
Sean Peche: It puts our views out there. You actually start engaging. I mean, the nice thing about LinkedIn, I've kind of stopped on Twitter. I used to copy my posts and put them on Twitter and I'll just provide a link. And if you're not on LinkedIn, too bad [00:36:00] because the thing is on LinkedIn, what I love about the platform is that people are trying to enhance their professional image.
Sean Peche: So on Twitter, you know they're hired behind a non de plume and they throw rocks, but it could be a competitor or whatever, and you go, I'm not gonna engage with this person. Whereas on, on LinkedIn, you know, you write a piece on, I don't know. Hedging of natural gas contracts and oil companies. And the next thing you get some guy who was the derivative, you know, experts at a natural gas company sort of correcting you or whatever.
Sean Peche: And I'm like, well, that's great. I'm learning. Everybody else is learning. This is a platform. We all want, we should all want to enhance ourselves. And so it's a really great platform. And people have said to me, well, why don't you write a blog and you can write a blog and you can charge so much per week and.
Sean Peche: You could do this. You're back a fortune, you know, thousands of followers. I go, no, forget it. If I'd written a blog, Tim Barney would not be working for us today because he would have been locked up. And I like nothing more than somebody sending me an outgain. Sheesh. I really didn't understand cashflow statements.
Sean Peche: Now I do. Thanks so much. That's great. You know, that's what I [00:37:00] want. So yeah. So I think it's a fantastic format forum.
Stacy Havener: I do too. And obviously, I mean, we're sort of like high fiving each other here because we're both on and both fans, but that's okay because listen, what you said though is also something that people miss as this turns into like a LinkedIn masterclass now.
Stacy Havener: But the big thing people miss about it is it's a social platform, which means that the magic happens in the comments and the engagement. You can't just go on there and like you said. You know, throw out a post and then like you can't post a ghost basically. It doesn't work that
Sean Peche: way. That's right. I mean, what I find quite interesting, I'll write a post and an hour later, I'll go and have a look at who's read it.
Sean Peche: Now I'll see a whole lot of likes. Okay. And you know, the odds celebrates or whatever. And but then I'll go and have a look and say, okay, well, what's the classification job description of the people who've who've read it? Okay, and it's always at the top [00:38:00] portfolio managers and then I go and look at my likes No portfolio managers have liked my post because they don't want to be seen You know what?
Sean Peche: I mean? It's like they don't want to be seen to be commending A competitor or whatever. Well, I mean, unless you're a passive portfolio manager, seriously, there's enough sunshine for all of us. I'm not really a competitor. And it's like somebody's given you something that you thought was actually interesting and you don't want to say thank you.
Sean Peche: I mean, I find it odd, but anyway, that's fine. You know, each day. But what's interesting is they will get locked by not engaging and liking and commenting. They won't see every post because that's how the LinkedIn formula works. And the people who. See the posts, and it always pops up on their thread first of the ones who have read and commented and liked and just engaged.
Sean Peche: And Elgo learns that. So, you know, there's a price to pay for not engaging.
Stacy Havener: Of course. And there's also incredible value in your shadow fans. Because I guarantee you that [00:39:00] some of those portfolio managers type your name into LinkedIn every day that they're on that platform, right? They do because you know, they're, and they may never raise their hand, but it's always amazing to me when it feels like someone falls out of the, from the sky, you know, it's like, Oh, hi.
Stacy Havener: You know, and they like, I feel like I know you or whatever. It's like, I've been following you on LinkedIn forever. I've never seen you. I've never seen you comment or anything, but they're just there and they're valuable. So you don't know. And we'll get off our LinkedIn high horse here and like the soap box of LinkedIn.
Stacy Havener: But I think it's refreshing. For me in the seat that we're in saying, look, you know, share your thought leadership. If you want to compete with the bigs, there's a whole bunch of stuff you're never going to be able to compete with. Not the teams they build, not the budgets they have, not the army of salespeople, not the PR they can buy or the sponsorships.
Stacy Havener: And you're never going to be able to touch that, but you can go toe to toe with them on thought [00:40:00] leadership, but you have to get your thoughts out there. I mean, LinkedIn is. It levels the playing field.
Sean Peche: That's a very good point. It does. And somebody once said to me, you know, put your best content out there because often people, you know, boutiques, they think, well, hang on, I'm going to share my best ideas.
Sean Peche: Why would I want to share my best ideas? People are going to plagiarize them and then, yeah, but that's how you get known. That's right. And you know, so share there's actually, it's the, I mean, you know, it's like, uh, what is it? You know, children, they don't want to share. No, it's mine. It's almost like a, you know what I mean?
Sean Peche: It's an inherent thing, but actually by sharing you get stuff back.
Stacy Havener: That's how it works. Correct.
Sean Peche: And so I've met people through LinkedIn and, uh, I've had coffee with guys in Ireland or whatever, and I've made friends from LinkedIn and it's great. I mean, look at us. And so, yeah, we all want the same thing. I would encourage all boutiques, get, put your content out there, get out there, comment on it.
Sean Peche: And here's a top tip that I [00:41:00] heard learns, which I'll pass on. You know, if you want to get your name out there and want to build up contacts, go and make insightful comments on other people's content. Because if somebody makes insightful comments on my content, what happens is all the people who've read my post get to see that content.
Sean Peche: And then they go, who's this bike guy? He seems quite smart. All right, let's go follow him. And that's how you do it. So it's great. I know it's a wonderful platform and it's, you know, it's free. Even if it isn't
Stacy Havener: a premium, that's the other thing for a boutique again, you know, you want to compete, you want to grow, you've got to find ways to do that.
Stacy Havener: That makes sense for you and showcase again, the strengths it's like David and Goliath, right? I mean, you're not going to beat Goliath with Goliath's. Artillery and ammunition. You gotta come up with your, what's your slingshot. And you don't need a whole bunch. You need one thing you're really good at. And if you're good at investing and you specialize in something, the way to [00:42:00] show it is through your thought leadership somehow.
Stacy Havener: And so there you have it. Everyone go follow Sean on LinkedIn and go write something or comment. Even comment just start with that, right? Just start with that. That was great advice. Thanks. I want to spend a minute. Yeah, on qualitative due diligence. Not that we have to go back to the numbers and narrative thing, because I think.
Stacy Havener: We agree that. We're similar yet different on that topic, but the qualitative due diligence and the bravery or courage that it takes to be yourself in this business. So, you have worked at large firms, you've had your own firm, and you are very much yourself. Although, you know, I want you to be more, even more so, right?
Stacy Havener: Like, let people see you, and that's how they know you and like you and trust you. But why? I mean Why is that so challenging in our business? Like, why is it so hard for fund [00:43:00] managers to just shake off all the, you know, the industry stuff and be themselves?
Sean Peche: I think it's probably because many of us came out of institutions.
Sean Peche: And the wealth managers that we market to our institutions, so we think we need to be institutional, you know, and that's probably the reason and I think, but you're quite right. It's you then approaching it the same way. And I'm trying to get better at this and thank you for your encouragement. I mean, you inspired me to write, you know, the piece about, about Tim Barney and I've got, I've got other pieces.
Sean Peche: And so, you know, I'm trying to do that and it's great, you know, and I think the other interesting thing just on that, I think as boutiques, we've got the luxury. I mean, Andrew and I, so he's, Andrew's my right hand guy. I mean, he's a, he's an absolute superstar. And I said to. Somebody the other day, and this was just before poor Charlie Munger passed away.
Sean Peche: I said, you know, I might be the Warren Buffett in the sense that I'm out there and people know about me and I've got the [00:44:00] Yeah. But Andrew is more than half the brains and he's maybe the Charlie Munger who sort of pitches up the day GM, but Andrew and I own 70 percent of the business and the operations team has another 10.
Sean Peche: So we've got 80 percent and we've had many approaches to acquire us in total and we're not interested because then we'll lose our identity. You know, we want to hire who we want, buy whatever we want and say what we want. And the minute you become part of a large organization, you know, I'm going to have Five lawyers thinking, well, hang on.
Sean Peche: Can you actually say that in his LinkedIn post? And by the time my LinkedIn post gets out there, you know, it'll be three weeks after the company's reported results and forget it. Not going there. You know, so it's
Stacy Havener: so true. Yeah. We'll be back in a moment after a word from our premier brand partner, Ultimis Fund Solutions.
Sean Peche: When we first launched our internal fund to funds as a limited partnership. It was a great option for us to be able to provide a hundred of our accredited and qualified purchaser clients with access to a [00:45:00] diversified portfolio of hedge fund strategies. However, fast forward to 2016, our firm had grown to manage over 4 billion and serve over a thousand clients of various sizes, accreditations, and tax situations.
Sean Peche: We still firmly believe that high quality hedge fund exposure is important to client portfolios.
Stacy Havener: It provides stability
Sean Peche: to client portfolios and generates a return stream that was not available in public and equity and fixed income markets. Unfortunately, the 3C1 structure with its slot limitations, high minimums, And K1 reporting was no longer ideal solution for our growing and complex client base.
Sean Peche: We looked at various alternative options with third party hedge fund managers, liquid hedge mutual funds, but also discovered that we had an opportunity to register our fund with the SEC. Preserve his extensive track record and solve all of the issues that the three C one structure was creating for our business and [00:46:00] clients.
Sean Peche: That's when we teamed up with Ultimis to begin the process of registering our legacy fund with the SEC and converting it to a tender offer fund.
Stacy Havener: We'll hear more later in the show. Now back to the program.
Stacy Havener: It's so true. And so it's freeing, but also it's. Very scary. I mean, I still have times. It's a journey for all of us on authenticity, and it's a daily practice to have the courage to show up as you really are. And so that's part of it. Like, I'm sure when you wrote the Tembani post, like, there's a little bit of trepidation of clicking, like, clicking that, because you're like, gosh, this is like, You know, there's a lot of heart and emotion and it's different than what I normally write.
Stacy Havener: And, you know, so that you just sort of have to work through it, but if you can, it's incredibly freeing.
Sean Peche: Stacey, I did a piece a little while ago. I don't know where you saw it. It's about Taylor Swift. So I joke. I can't wait to read it. [00:47:00] I don't know. That's how I joke because I happen to love country music and my daughter shares my passion for it.
Sean Peche: And we've got a little, then I'll play the guitar. And so we've got a little clips of us singing songs and we. We joked that we actually brought Taylor Swift to the UK long before anybody else knew about Taylor Swift. Okay. She was here. And so I wrote about a piece of that. I thought my daughter was a value manager.
Sean Peche: And then she went and paid 300. Okay. But what I've tried to do there is I said, well, you know, I think Taylor is unbelievable. And just the incredible business person, just to, I mean, just amazing. She makes herself vulnerable and all that sort of stuff. What can we learn from Taylor Swift? And then I kind of concluded the end.
Sean Peche: That actually, I think my daughter got a bargain at 300 bucks. Can I buy a ticket? And yeah, so that was another one, which is quite different. And I'll try to put a little bit of humor in. So I'm trying to do more of those, but you know, I'm always, you always sort of worry. You think I'm going to run out of ideas and you know, you're always one bad post away from, uh, yeah, one bad and then, you know, overstep the mark or something.
Sean Peche: So one's always got to be a little bit cautious, but that's where I've got [00:48:00] Howell and Andrew. To just sense check. And I think that's the other thing for entrepreneurs. You know, you've, it's so important to have somebody that you can rely on to say, you know, you know what, is this a bad idea? Cause I think it's a good idea, but what do you think?
Sean Peche: And they can tell you, listen to Sean, it's a bad idea. Okay. That's a bad idea. I won't do it. Yeah. That's so good. So one day when I write a book, I've got a whole lot of LinkedIn pieces in, in, you know, Taylor's got her vaults. I've got my vaults stuff that, it's so good.
Stacy Havener: We'll have to do another podcast about all our, our things that we've learned from Taylor Swift.
Stacy Havener: Cause there's so many from a business perspective. I mean, she really is unbelievable. Even, I was just saying to Eric, my husband, the other day, I was like, you know, every. Music star is like, why didn't I think to turn my concert into a movie like it's so brilliant and yet it was right there in front of all of them.
Stacy Havener: And she's like, you know, it's a good idea. I'm going to record my concert and turn into a movie and get paid. For that same event, I've already made a billion dollars. I'm going [00:49:00] to just keep going. I mean, it's just brilliant and simple. I love it. You
Sean Peche: know, she couldn't break into the music scene. So she sang a song about Tim McGraw, who was the biggest superstar at the time.
Sean Peche: And that was the name, you know, Tim McGraw and then sang a song about him. All of a sudden, everybody set up and he's this person. It's brilliant. So she was creative. And I think that what I wanted to say. Now, she was creative in finding a solution to her problem and us boutiques, we got to be creative. We can't go, it's a bit like that dollar shave club.
Sean Peche: Remember they did so well and it was just a funny YouTube video and they, you know, they didn't have to advertise on the Superbowl. They just did a funny YouTube ad and off they go. So we got to be creative about how we get there.
Stacy Havener: Yeah, we do. And I want to talk a little bit about entrepreneurship. I want to touch on that.
Stacy Havener: You've given some fabulous advice so far. Specifically, I think the part of entrepreneurship I want to dive into and hopefully it's okay is a lot of fund managers come to us and need help. And [00:50:00] 1 of the questions I'll ask them as well, what is success look like for you? Like, you know, if we're sitting here.
Stacy Havener: A year from now, three years from now, what does success look like for you? And I probably shouldn't say this, but what the red flag for me is if somebody says, wow, a billion dollars yesterday. If you say a billion dollars yesterday, we're never working with you. Never. Because your expectation is so twisted, we will never make you happy.
Stacy Havener: Right? You think you should already have it, and you don't, and you're pissed off, and you think we're gonna save you, and no one's gonna save you. So, you know, the idea, the reason I said I hope it's okay that I ask this is, you've done so incredibly well at delivering results, and what's your AUM right
Sean Peche: now?
Sean Peche: 138 million. Okay.
Stacy Havener: Is that what you expected it to be? And what year is this? This is year
Sean Peche: 15. No way near, I mean, I thought we'd be Yeah. Multiples of the [00:51:00] spinal, but it's very humbling. Yeah, it is. And that's good. You know, it's good. You want to be humbled in this, uh, in the market. It's an important thing. We might, as soon as you think, you know, everything you're going to get cut down to size and your book clients are going to feel it too.
Sean Peche: So humbling is not a problem. We can deal with humbling.
Stacy Havener: We can do with humbling. Yeah. Talk about that. Talk about that. Cause the expectation. Especially if you're a talented portfolio manager, which you are is exactly like you said. They're going to find me and the money's going to come quickly.
Sean Peche: Yeah. And you know, that's the thing if you're, but I love what I do.
Sean Peche: I don't care. It
Stacy Havener: takes me. I don't care.
Sean Peche: It's like people ask me, I mean, the odd thing is, is you helping people save for their retirement, but I'm never going to retire. So, you know, I don't think retirement's a great thing. I'm hopefully I'm helping people save for the time when they. Do you contribute in a different way so they can just sit on the sofa and watch Netflix?
Sean Peche: So that doesn't matter. And it has taken a long time and there've been times when I didn't think we're going to make it. I really didn't. And it's been challenging in [00:52:00] that it hasn't been a market for value stocks. And so, you know, the pandemic happens. And I think finally we've got a crisis here, right?
Sean Peche: Finally, all the bad, it's going to, the euphoria is going to get shaken out. But of course everyone's, you know, then you're sitting at home and you're buying. People are buying Apple and they're ordering on Amazon and they, you know, sitting on Pelotons and all the rest. And so that and, and that just market just goes absolutely nuts.
Sean Peche: But the period of QE was challenging for value managers, but that period is over. And you seeing a lot of the funds that did well. Are from buying those quality companies that paid dividends and all the rest, well, they paid dividends and the dividend yields were attractive when interest rates were practically nought.
Sean Peche: Well, now interest rates aren't practically nought and their dividend yields are much lower. So, you know, it's no wonder that they're stumbling. Many of those brands are exposed to recessions, things like that. So I think the world has changed. And I think this is going to be our era going forward and people, you know, in terms of past track record, they look and they go, well, how have you done over [00:53:00] 1, 3, 5, 10 since inception is a big job.
Sean Peche: Well, that 10 captures the QE, you know, so it's like, well, let's focus on, on the period. What they should do is how have you, how did you do during QE and how did you do? Since QE ended. Okay. Since inflation and interest rates normalize because what the aberration was that 10 year period not not now. And so I just, you know, I just know that we're doing the right stuff and it'll come and I know it'll come and we'll be there when it does.
Sean Peche: I
Stacy Havener: love that. Another great example, by the way, of why narrative can give so much context in partnership with numbers, because 10 years starting today, looking backwards is much different than other timeframes, right? There's so much to that. That was really well said. So on the entrepreneurship thing, and specifically, I guess, for boutiques, What would you say to them, like, if, you know, they're starting out and they're like, I'm going to have a billion dollars in [00:54:00] three years.
Stacy Havener: It's like, how do you help them? I guess I'm asking for myself because, you know, I don't want to rain on their parade, but I also know how unrealistic that is. So what advice do you have for managers? Around expectations of growth, et cetera,
Sean Peche: you need to prepare for the fact that it's going to take you longer than you ever thought it would.
Sean Peche: Okay. And you've got to be able to cope with that. And you better have a partner. If you've got a partner who is going to stay the course with you. And thankfully, I'm unbelievably lucky in that my wife, Marilyn is just the most amazing person. And she has been right there with me all the time. And at one point we had our money yet.
Sean Peche: So when we were still running a hedge fund as a Alongside our global equity fund, which we just launched with Morgan Stanley and Morgan Stanley was going into free fall. And I've got home one Friday night and I said, if Morgan Stanley doesn't open for business on Monday and it goes the same way as Lehman Brothers, we might have to start again.
Sean Peche: And she said, well, we'll start again. Now, listen, are we having Sauvignon Blanc for our dinner or are we [00:55:00] having a Chardonnay? Like, not a problem. Okay. She is just the most amazing person and I wouldn't have been able to do this without her. So I think you need a good partner there because you're going to come home on stressful days and you're going to be grumpy and they've got to be able to, you know, talk you out of it or whatever.
Sean Peche: But also health, having somebody in the business, you know, it's lonely out there having somebody in the business who you can turn to. And I've been very lucky in that the people I've had Richard when I started, he's still a very good friend of mine. And then, you know, he went and rode his own boat and did really well.
Sean Peche: And then Howell and now Andrew and Howell. You know, these guys are just, just, there's a sounding board, sensible people. I think the other thing is you want to get into business really with whom you could imagine saying, listen, will you be in children trustee of my children's trust? If I fall off my page tomorrow and I've got young kids, will you look after them?
Sean Peche: That's how much I trust you. If you get into business with those kinds of people, you're off to a winner. And so you've got to have those. And then also you've got to understand you might be a brilliant [00:56:00] portfolio manager, but you know, you'd all of a sudden you've got to be managing people. You've got to be managing the business, you've got to be raising money, you've got to be encouraging your team during and keeping them going during the tough times and saying, don't worry, guys, listen, we want to win it here.
Sean Peche: Let's just be patient. Don't stress. So you've got to have all those other things. And multi, you know, you've got to be, I guess you've got a multitask. Yeah. And if you don't, then you've got to hire people to do that. Well, in. What happens when one of them, you know, make sure you've got the right person, because if the person who's raising money is doing well, well, he's only going to be able to raise money if you're doing, if you're generating the performance, if you're not generating the performance, you know, tensions can, can occur.
Sean Peche: Yeah. So it's not an easy route and you've got to decide you want the whole thing and then be patient because tough times, they'll come, you know, there'll be tough times for sure. Okay.
Stacy Havener: Well, that was such fabulous advice, such fabulous advice, and I know and believe in my heart of hearts, there will be a day in the not too, you know, distant future that you'll be [00:57:00] looking back on where you are right now and saying, gosh, remember when that was our AUM level and look at, you know, how far we've come.
Stacy Havener: And that to me, as somebody who believes in boutiques, like there's nothing like helping someone build something. You never forget those. Teammates, those, you know, vendors who gave you a break in the beginning, those investors who took a chance on you in the beginning. Like to me, that is just such a special time, special relationship and that can last a lifetime.
Stacy Havener: Yeah. Absolutely. Super awesome. All right. I want to end with something a little fun. This has been fabulous. Okay. This is going to be a little bit of an exercise in authenticity for you, which is good because you said you want to practice that, right? Yeah. Okay. All right. So we're going to do my version of Proust's questionnaire.
Stacy Havener: We'll start out hopefully with stuff that's, you know, a little bit easier and work our way. You ready? Okay. Okay. All right. Here we [00:58:00] go. What book inspires you?
Sean Peche: The first book that I read, which kind of changed my life really, was The Magic of Thinking Big by David Schwartz. And it's full of incredible quotes in there.
Sean Peche: You know, action cures fear. It opened a doorway. You know, they talk about self help books. No, that's not self help. It's self improvement. And it was just incredible. It's an incredible book. Okay. Love that. Yeah. If you want to taste it, just go and type, you know, Magic of Thinking Big quotes on Google and you'll get 25 quotes.
Sean Peche: Great. All right. So, sorry, long way to answer that question.
Stacy Havener: No, that's all right. I love that. I also love that you didn't say an investment book. Not that, like, investment people can't do that, but I'm always like, oh, it's such an opportunity to talk about something else. So, good job. Yeah. All right. Now we're moving on to places.
Stacy Havener: What place inspires you? What's your happy place? My
Sean Peche: happy place. I read a long time ago that living close to water is good for the soul. Yes. And I know you do your walks on the beach. And so we actually back onto a canal when, you know, and there's [00:59:00] swans and all the rest. And so I love that. And we've got a holiday house in South Africa near water.
Sean Peche: So, so living near water. And then, and then my second, if I can't find water, it's forests. I love forests going for walks in forests.
Stacy Havener: That's so great. I have a book for you. Yeah. Which a lot of people I've recommended this book to. Said, well, they didn't like it, so I don't know why I keep recommending it.
Stacy Havener: But the thing is, it moved me to tears. So I'm not understanding that. So the book is called. I'm staring at it right now, Blue Mind, and it's exactly what you described. It's basically the power of water. The stories are amazing, the science, it's got all the things you like. It's got data, it's got science, and it's got my stuff like the stories.
Stacy Havener: It's one of my favorite books, I don't know. You'll have to tell me if you
Sean Peche: read it. I will get hold of that and read. In fact, I might even get the The part of the audio version and then listen to that while I'm walking through forest. How about that?
Stacy Havener: Oh, for us. And they're going to say, by the way, I read it while I was at a very beautiful place that was on the water.
Stacy Havener: And I think maybe that [01:00:00] contributed to my experience, but neither here nor there. I love that. That was great. All right. Now a fun one. Maybe for me. Okay. Let's pretend. We're in the future, we've got a couple billion dollars now, you're going to go speak to a group of boutiques, you're going to give them, you know, tell them your story, give them some advice.
Stacy Havener: You're about to take the stage. What song do they play as your walkout
Sean Peche: anthem? Okay. Well, I love country music. I should have been born in Nashville. Okay. There's no doubt about that. And I've still got to go on a pilgrimage to Nashville. So it would have to be a country music, and it would have to have a great beat, because I love playing the drums.
Sean Peche: And I'll tell you a song that really gets me fired up and has helped me over some tough times is Kelly Clarkson's What Doesn't Kill You Makes You Stronger. Do you know the song? Oh, yes! That's a great one! Oh my goodness, I love that. And she's got another one called The Sun Will Rise, which is also, I love the words for that.
Sean Peche: But yeah, What Doesn't
Sean Peche: Kill You Makes You Stronger. That's a
Stacy Havener: good song. Okay, that's fabulous. And so [01:01:00] awesome, like not what you'd expect, so that makes it even cooler to me. Okay, speaking of things you wouldn't expect, what profession other than your own would you like to attempt?
Sean Peche: I'd probably, you know, if I didn't work here, I'd probably teaching.
Sean Peche: I love teaching. I've thoroughly enjoyed teaching the young guys who come through. The company and I prefer part, you know, hiring people who don't have an experience then building up. And you know, I was at the London school of economics and the London business school recently and sort of lecturing or giving them a talk and judging a competition.
Sean Peche: So teaching is great and I love getting the LinkedIn messages thanking me for what I've taught them. So yeah. And that's why my blog will never be paid. Okay. So teaching is good. Then it's a way of getting back.
Stacy Havener: Yes, I am so aligned on that. Okay, flip side. Yeah. What profession would you not like to do?
Sean Peche: I would not like to be in human resources.
Sean Peche: Okay, I mean, uh, thought of that, forget it. Filling in, you know, dealing with, [01:02:00] especially at an investment bank, HR at an investment bank. Okay, where you've got, where you're dealing with people who think they're something special and, uh, more valuable than everybody else. No ways.
Stacy Havener: That is amazing. What a great answer.
Stacy Havener: That's the hardest part about being an entrepreneur, in my opinion, managing people and all those things. Very, very challenging. Okay. Last one. You're doing great. Okay. What do you want people to say about you after you've well, you're not going to retire after you've retired if you ever do or leave the industry?
Sean Peche: Yeah, so I think, well, I mean, it was one of the seven habits of highly effective people start with the end in mind, and I can't imagine leaving this industry voluntarily, okay? I'll do this until I'm no longer on this planet. And mortality is something I think about quite often actually, and I guess it's because my wife's a Pediatric intensive care consultant in intensive care.
Sean Peche: So, you know, you hear those stories and oh my goodness. And with my dad passing away early [01:03:00] and all the rest. So, so I do think about my mortality and I guess I'd like people to say, you know, he made a positive, I made a positive difference to their life and however, you know, help them save, help them retire, help them learn, help them get a job, whatever, something like that.
Sean Peche: So that's probably what I'd like.
Stacy Havener: I bet there are quite a few people that are already saying that. People at your company, people whose lives you've touched. That was wonderful sentiment. This time with you has been wonderful. so much. for being here. So I have two questions. Normally I always end with like, if people want to follow along, how can they do that?
Stacy Havener: I think they should know and hopefully they have already connected with you on LinkedIn. So my question for you is going to be slightly different. If people want to learn more about your funds and your offerings, well, first of all, who can, can people in the U S is this a coming [01:04:00] soon? Like, give us a sense of how can we learn more about ran more?
Stacy Havener: If that's something that we want to do.
Sean Peche: Yes. We run an Irish use. It's, it's an Irish use fund and it's not approved for regulation for marketing in the U S and a U S citizens are. Or a challenge at this point is something we got to look at finding a U. S. Friendly vehicle, and I have been getting contacted from, you know, violent and people saying, Well, how do we invest?
Sean Peche: And we've unfortunately, those kind of areas, you know, it's a highly regulated fund. And so we approved marketing in the U. K. Island and South Africa. And so we've got to stick to those. You get the odd Reverse solicitation, but obviously compliance is very important. So watch us, you know, there's something we'll be looking at that in the US within the next year, we'll have something there, maybe a feeder fund of sorts.
Sean Peche: I would guess.
Stacy Havener: Okay. Wonderful. And so if we want to follow along, we can go to your website, which is
Sean Peche: ran more funds. com and
Stacy Havener: can we get on a distribution list
Sean Peche: there? Yeah. With pleasure. Please. You know, and we [01:05:00] encourage feedback and what I try and do on our distribution list, you know, we, when we write our monthly fact sheet, what we'd really try and do is not just say, well, the market went out and we think oil is going to do this and gold is going to do that.
Sean Peche: The markets and the feds going to say this, you know, we actually said, listen, here's a company. This is why we like it. This is why we prefer it to others. We kind of try and yes, it's a bit different in that
Stacy Havener: regard. Love it. So sign up there for things ran more and follow you on LinkedIn and yeah.
Stacy Havener: Wonderful. Thank you so much,
Sean Peche: Stacy. Thank you so much for the opportunity and what a joy and pleasure to meet
Stacy Havener: you. Same. If you know a fund manager or a founder in the investment world with a great story, drop a note to Stacey at Stacey Havener dot com and tell me about it till next time. I'm Stacey Havener.
Stacy Havener: Thanks for listening. And now a final word from our premier brand partner, Ultimis Fund Solutions. [01:06:00]
Sean Peche: The conversion of Omert Berg's LP into an integral fund, empowered them to grow the fund from 90 million to over 200 million. And expand the reach from 100 investors to nearly 700 new investors and continues to grow today by pursuing the conversion.
Sean Peche: It was 25, 000 welcome accredited investors. In addition to qualified purchasers, the entire conversion process was highly efficient. Because Homer Berg chose to partner with Ultimis and other partners with a proven track record in this type of structure to structure product transition. The headlines are often too focused on new interval funds from pedigree providers, this new fund from this cool big firm, etc.
Sean Peche: Maximizing a fund's potential through a conversion can be a powerful too. As we see in the story of Homer Berg traditional investment management and alternative investment management are conversion. More retail investors are demanding access to non correlated strategies in a liquid asset classes to compliment or [01:07:00] supplement public markets exposure interval and tender offer funds offer managers a flexible wrapper.
Sean Peche: That combines many of the benefits of both 1940 Act and private fund structures. Interest in these products has increased significantly in the past decade, and we anticipate the volume of both new launches and structure conversions to continue well into the future.
Stacy Havener: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. The information is not an offer, solicitation, or recommendation of any of the funds, services, or products, or to adopt any investment strategy. Investment values may fluctuate and past performance is not a guide to future performance.
Stacy Havener: All opinions expressed by guests on the [01:08:00] show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their Manager's appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement by Stacey Havener or Havener Capital Partners.
You May Also Like
Resources
