Episode 29: Should You Launch an Investment Boutique? Answer These 5 Questions

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If you’re a talented fund manager you’ve probably asked yourself, “Should I start an investment boutique?” at some point or another. 

And I get it - the idea of being an entrepreneur sounds incredible. And there’s nothing that will fill you with more pride (and fear) than going out on your own. 

But before you jump ship, it’s crucial to ask yourself the RIGHT questions about whether being a founder AND a fund manager is for you.

That’s why in this episode, we’ll explore the five essential questions every talented fund manager should consider before starting their own firm.

TRANSCRIPT

Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.

 Stacy Havener: [00:00:00] You will need to be involved in the fundraising process, especially in the early days when you're a new fund or a new investment boutique with a new strategy, you are going to be at the front end of that adoption curve, innovators and early adopters. And the reasons they invest are different than somebody who is a late majority.

They don't need your strategy. To be perfect. They want to believe in you. They are hiring a person more than they are buying a fund, so what that means is you have to have a role. Hey, my name is Stacey Haven. I'm obsessed with startups, stories, and sales. Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the toughest boys club, Wall Street.

I've raised over 8 billion that has led to 30 billion in follow on assets for [00:01:00] investment boutiques. You could say against the odds. Yeah. Understatement. I share stories of the people behind the portfolios while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes. It's real talk here. Money, authenticity, growth, setbacks, sales, and marketing are all topics we discuss.

Think of this as the capital raising class you wish you had in college mixed with happy hour. Pull up a seat, grab your notebook, and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn. This is the Billion Dollar Backstory Podcast.

If you're a talented fund manager working for a big, managing billions of dollars, you're probably doing okay for yourself, but there might be six little words that you've said or thought to yourself at one point or another. Should I start? An investment boutique. [00:02:00] It's no secret that being a founder of a startup has exploded in popularity over the last few years.

I mean, think about tech and SAS and so many industries, including the investment industry. Being an entrepreneur is an incredible adventure that fills you with pride and fear. I speak from experience, but before you jump ship, it's crucial to ask the right questions about whether or not. Being a founder and a fund manager is for you.

In this episode, we'll explore the five essential questions every talented fund manager should consider before starting their own firm. Question one, what do I specialize in? Get clear on what your flagship strategy should be. And I know this isn't what you want to hear, but pick one. Let's start with how you identify your flagship strategy.

What is the [00:03:00] strategy you run that has the most compelling performance, the largest AUM? And here's the tough one, lights you. Your flagship strategy should be economically viable. I mean, after all, this is a business, but it should also be A strategy that investors use and want to hire an active manager to run.

That's all very true. We don't want the tail to wag the dog. So don't jump on the hot dot asset class because it's the hot dot. And you, quote, think you can do a good job running it. Launch the strategy you're known for. Even if it's not the asset class that is in favor at the moment. So now let's deal with that prickly part of the question.

It's what you're known for and it lights you up. So ask yourself this question. What is something you could hop on a call with an investor and speak [00:04:00] about for an hour unprepared? This is usually a good clue to where your passion lies. And after you think that through and kind of answer that question, I want you to layer down because to be powerful, it needs to be specific.

So it's not enough to say, Oh, I could just talk about equity investing all day long. Okay, but what part? Small cap, emerging markets, value investing, private equity, venture capital? There's so many flavors of equity investing we need to get more specific around what you love to talk about slash invest in and what you want to be known for.

So for example, one of our clients specializes in alternative credit, but specifically in the subcategory of structured credit. And even within that, they can break the niches down further. Another client is a specialist in value investing, both long and short, [00:05:00] and they can really geek out on financials and banks and insurance.

So what are you good at? What do investors know you for and what lights you up? That's your unique ability and it should be your flagship strategy. Let's go back to something else. I said at the beginning, that might not have been all that. palatable for you, which is I suggested that you pick one strategy to launch and how you identify which one.

Here's why. When early adopter investors due diligence on a new investment boutique, the qualitative due diligence is a Big deal. And one of the red flags for them is, is the team focused on one strategy that is their unique ability? Or, here's where the red flag comes in, are they distracted and trying to do too many things?

For example, if you are really well known for small cap value, [00:06:00] and you set up your own shop, and then you launch small cap value, mid cap value, large cap value, all U. S. plus a global Version of each of those, that might be too many things. So when an early adopter investor allocates to you, they are making an educated guess, an educated bet on you as a fund manager, and on you as a founder of a business.

Your business risk is as real as the risks in your investment portfolio. They don't want you to take your eye off the ball. Meaning The portfolio that they are in your flagship. So with all that said, I'll also add, don't overthink it. I say that after I've just blathered on for five minutes about this question, but don't overthink it.

This should not be a lengthy or complicated process. If you really don't know what your [00:07:00] flagship strategy should be, ask your friends in the biz, which investment strategy do you think I'm best at slash best known for? Sometimes other people can see our unique ability more clearly than we can. Okay, question two.

Do I have the time and the commitment? So building a business of any kind takes time, energy, resources, and commitment. And that's not just for the portfolio, okay? Let's think of some of the key elements involved in building a successful boutique. All right, you have the back office. This could include general firm operations, fund operations, admin, compliance, firm accounting, fund accounting, legal.

You don't want to cut corners or skimp here. There are a lot of things you can't control in building an investment boutique, but having blue chip buttoned up back office operations is something you can control. So [00:08:00] take the time and allocate the resources to find experienced partners. This is a game of who not how.

Okay, so that's the back office. The investment office. Gone are the days of two guys in a Bloomberg in a garage managing billions. It can't just be you as the fund manager. Besides you as the fund manager, how many analysts do you need? How will you divide coverage? Who makes decisions? Who trades? Who reconciles?

Who talks with the external vendors? Who talks to investors? I'm not suggesting that you should overstaff on day one, but you want at least one or two other people with you on the investment side, as well as a plan for how you will scale the team as you grow. And P. S. This is also why picking one strategy will help you.

You don't need a huge team to manage that one flagship strategy. All right, so it's back office, investment office, sales and investor relations. [00:09:00] Who will do sales and what will your process be? Ditto on that same question for once an investor becomes a client, who's going to maintain that client? What is your process going to be for IR?

There's a lot of blocking and tackling that needs to be done here. And not all of it should be done by you, the founder and fund manager. And we're going to talk about that a little bit later in the episode. You do have a role. It just shouldn't all be done by you. Why? Because think about what goes into that.

Outreach, emails, scheduling, Zoom calls, in person meetings, funnel creation, CRM management, delivering the materials and all the documents. How are you going to get clients? How will you retain them? You're going to need help there. Okay, again, who not how. Alright, marketing and promotion. Not the, not the same as sales.

The salesperson will need collateral to help tell your story. At a minimum, [00:10:00] what we call the BPK, the Boutique Pitch Kit, which should include a fact sheet, A presentation, a commentary, or a quarterly letter of some kind so people can see your thought process, how you think, a generic DDQ, a website, and a social media page.

And then the question to ask here is, how is marketing going to help get eyes on your brand and generate leads for sales? Oh, by the way, marketing also plays a really nice role in IR. We'll be back in a moment after a word from our premier brand partner, Ultimis Fund Solutions.

Since our founding in 1989, we believe that alternative investments are integral part of client portfolios. Unfortunately, delivering high quality hedge funds and private market exposures has always been a challenge for the wealth management industry. These type of [00:11:00] alternative investments introduce unique challenges related to taxes, qualifications, paperwork, and reporting.

As a result, high net worth investors tend to be significantly under allocated to both hedge funds and private markets relative to institutional investors. That's Stephanie Lang, Chief Investment Officer from Homeric Berg, an 11 billion RIA headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, that serves over 2, 700 clients in 46 states.

You can tell they believe in helping high net worth clients access hedge funds and other alternative investments. They are equally as passionate about broadening that access for all their clients, not just qualified purchasers or a select group of accredited investors. Meet Nick Darsh from Ultimis with some backstory.

Hall McBurg created a 3C1 fund in January 1999 to provide their high net worth. And [00:12:00] institutional investors with ready access to a diversified portfolio of hedge funds. As interest in the fund grew and the constraint of the a hundred investor rule loomed, HB began exploring ways to continue expanding the investor pool without negatively affecting existing shareholders.

We'll hear more about the creative fund conversion work that made it possible later in the show. Now back to the program.

So you can build this internally with a lean and mean team. You could also look to supplement internal team members with outsource partners. Obviously at Havener, we play a role as an outsource partner in sales and marketing. And there are other firms who are great at that as well, but it's not just sales and marketing that can be outsourced.

You can also outsource a lot of your fund work, your admin finance functions, even compliance. It's a great place to look at outsourcing when you're starting a boutique. [00:13:00] The time element of managing a boutique as a founder is something fund managers grossly underestimate. Who not how is my best advice here.

Try to stay in your unique ability of investing as much as you can knowing. that in the early days the founder does play a critical role in sales and marketing. So founder led sales is very real and it applies to you as you build an investment boutique. But there's another element that fund managers kind of miss, and this is an overestimation actually.

Most fund managers think they're going to raise money very quickly. The average investor due diligence cycle is 12 to 18 months from the time you engage with them. And that assumes you're targeting the right investors at the right time. This is not you call Callan on day one of your new investment boutique and they should be investing in 12 to 18 months.

That's the wrong [00:14:00] investor, wrong time. Okay, so this assumes you've already nailed your target market. If you're targeting investors at the wrong end of the adoption curve when you launch, their due diligence time frame could be 2 to 3 years with a bunch of other milestones you're going to need to hit.

Okay, it takes a long time to build a business and to get investors. I got a piece of advice from one of my mentors when I launched my own firm over 10 years ago, and his advice was, everything will take twice as long and cost twice as much as you think, at least. Which is a great segue to the next question you need to ask yourself before you launch an investment boutique.

Question number three. Am I well capitalized? Now, there are a few different components to this topic, and I want to break down the money stitch for us. So the first bucket of capital that you need is your investment capital. What do I mean by that? You need to be the first investor into [00:15:00] your fund. You, your founding team, you have to put up before you can expect investors to show up.

Minimum. That we like to see our founders and their founding team put into a new fund is a million dollars, but I will say the more you concede your fund with the better and think about why investors doing due diligence want to know that you are invested in the same strategy that they are, right? It's that whole eat your own cooking, drink your own champagne thing.

Some managers will try to say things like, Well, I don't have money in the fund because I'm aligned. I'm building the business. I'm funding the business. That is not the same thing. Okay, you actually have to do both. Welcome to being an entrepreneur. So you need investment capital to actually seed the fund with at least a million dollars.

Now, the second bucket of capital you need is your operating capital, [00:16:00] and you're going to have startup costs, you'll have ongoing costs, and you're going to want capital for both. So this goes back to an earlier comment about building a business taking twice as long and costing twice as much as you think.

So whatever you think you'll need to run your business for a year or two, double that amount. And set that aside in a bank account, investors are going to ask how much runway you have, and it's really powerful when you can answer. I have two years, three years, four years, whatever it is of capital set aside that I do not have to raise a dollar and I'm fine.

Business risk is real. So, going back to the operating capital, to get your business off the ground, hire the resources you need, and give yourself some runway like we just talked about, you're likely going to need five to ten million in operating capital depending on your team size. Now, many of our clients self fund their boutiques.

They, [00:17:00] again, if we go back to the beginning, they've been very successful in their careers and they have the capital to launch this themselves. But you don't have to do that. You could also raise external capital. And I want to give you a couple things to think about there. The caveat is one of the parts of an investment boutique that investors and allocators really like is the ownership structure.

So your boutique should remain majority employee owned. That is a big deal for investors in their due diligence. So you can raise external capital, but don't give away the farm. The other thing I would say is if you're going to raise external capital, be thoughtful about who these investors are. So you could think about strategic partners or backers in your industry.

You could think about former colleagues, clients, partners, people, you know, in the industry. Those are probably the two places [00:18:00] we see the most alignment with external investors in an investment boutique versus for instance, crowdfunding. from a bunch of strangers. You know, I'm not sure that that is something I would recommend for many reasons.

And I want to give you a couple anecdotes, like a couple stories, my favorite thing, so that you can see how this could play out. And these are real life examples. So I had a call a while back with three very successful fund managers, almost exactly what I described at the start of the podcast. You know, they were Very successful in a niche.

They knew their flagship strategy, wanted to start an investment boutique, and they had 25 million between the three of them. They wanted to put all of that in their fund. and zero dollars in their operating capital bucket. They asked me for my advice and I said, I don't think that is the [00:19:00] right mix, the right allocation between those two buckets.

Love that you're going to put so much of your capital in the fund, but the operating capital side, they wanted to get external investors to fund that part. And I didn't understand why did they want to give up so much economics in their firm When they could just peel off a couple million, five million, let's say, from their investment bucket and put in their operating bucket and not have to give up any economics.

Their answer was really interesting to me and maybe it's something that we can all learn from. They said, we have more confidence in our abilities as investment managers. than we do in our abilities as operators. And it was a red flag for me. If it was a red flag for me as I put myself in the shoes of an investor, I have like a strong inclination.

It would be a red flag for allocators as well. So that's one example maybe of what not to do or what to reconsider. [00:20:00] Another example, we know a very successful investment manager. They manage double digit billions, so they're a larger boutique, and they're a specialist in an asset class. So they've kind of made it, they invest in boutiques and startups in complimentary asset classes.

Gosh, first of all, I wish there were more firms that made it, you know, larger boutiques and even bigs who would seed the next generation, but that's a story for another podcast. Anyway, so those are a couple examples. We also have a client who their mentor, their first boss, if you will, in this industry ended up seeding their firm, giving them operating capital and putting money in the fund as well.

So there's lots of different ways you can get there. Your founder's network and what we call friendlies is very important because you really want to think through not just do I have the money I need, but how are these external investors going to play into our [00:21:00] story and our narrative as a boutique.

Okay. Question four. Am I comfortable doing sales and marketing? Now, before you're like, wait a minute, timeout Stacey, you just told me who not how and I'm not supposed to be doing sales and marketing. And you're right, I did say that and that's because you should not be the primary person doing sales and marketing for your investment boutique if you are the founder fund manager.

That's also a red flag for an allocator. If they think that you're spending all this time trying to raise capital, that means that's time you're not spending on their portfolio. However, that can be a cop out for founder fund managers who maybe aren't so comfortable doing sales and marketing, because you do have a role.

So the first thing is, either hire someone internally or partner with an external group to help you with sales and marketing. Who not have? Definite. But what I really [00:22:00] want to talk about here is that you will need to be involved in the fundraising process, especially in the early days. We'll be back in a moment after a word from our premier brand partner, Ultimis Fund Solutions.

When we first launched our internal fund to funds as a limited partnership, it was a great option for us to be able to provide a hundred of our accredited and qualified purchaser clients with access to a diversified portfolio of hedge fund strategies. However, fast forward to 2016, our firm had grown to manage over 4 billion and serve over a thousand clients of various sizes, accreditations, and tax situations.

We still firmly believe that high quality hedge fund exposure is important to client portfolios. It provides stability. To client portfolios and generates a return stream that was not available in public and equity and fixed income markets. Unfortunately, the 3C1 [00:23:00] structure with its slot limitations, high minimums, and K1 reporting was no longer ideal solution for our growing.

and complex client base. We looked at various alternative options with third party hedge fund managers, liquid hedge mutual funds, but also discovered that we had an opportunity to register our fund with the SEC, preserve its extensive track record, and solve all of the issues that the 3C1 structure was creating for our business and clients.

That's when we teamed up with Ultimis to begin the process of registering our legacy fund. with the SEC and converting it to a tender offer fund. We'll hear more later in the show. Now, back to the program.

Again, let's think about that adoption curve. When you're a new fund or a new investment boutique with a new strategy, you are going to be at the front end of that [00:24:00] adoption curve, innovators and early adopters. And the reasons they invest are different. Then somebody who is a late majority, let's say investor on the curve.

So late majority would be like consultants, very, very big institutional investors, the ones that have the checklist of like, do you have five years of track and X hundreds of millions of dollars or billions and all these things, right? That's not our target market right now. If we're a startup or a new investment boutique.

We are on the front end of the curve with early adopters and the reasons they invest are different. They don't need your strategy to be perfect. They want to believe in you. They are hiring a person more than they are buying a fund. So what that means is you have to have a role. Now, let's say that you do hire someone to do sales for [00:25:00] you.

And then you're like, okay, great. What's my role? Well, your role is you're going to have to be accessible to the investors in the due diligence process and after, and to be honest with you as a founder, you're going to want to be talking with these people. Why? Because you're going to be so grateful and honored that they chose you.

That relationship is so special. It's one of the reasons I love working with boutiques and startups because the magic of helping somebody in the beginning, in the early days, you just can't replicate it, you know, when you're managing 10 billion and you get a new client, it's like, it hits different than when you have no dollars or a million of your own.

And somebody says, I'm going to write you a check for 5 million. I believe in you. Gosh, that is something special. There are other reasons and ways that the founder can help in the fundraising process and [00:26:00] That has to do with you, you and your personal brand. So when you choose to be the face and the heart and the soul of your business, you're personalizing the company.

That was probably not an issue when you were at the big managing the billions. Like there's no personalization. It's about the company. Then it's about the firm here. You have to build the firm around you. And I know that makes a lot of fund managers feel uncomfortable. I get it. But you can do this in a way that is centered around your authority, your credibility, your thought leadership, your specialty.

And you can use media that lends itself to your unique abilities as a person. You know, you don't have to do podcasting. You don't have to do social. You don't have to go speak, but you got to find the things that you enjoy doing. I'm using air quotes. [00:27:00] So you're going to personalize your brand, you're going to build authority and credibility.

You're going to provide value to your audience from you. That's so special. It's going to get you more leads and it's going to help you close deals. So You'll need to come up with a plan for how you and the key members of your team will be involved in the sales process. If you're in a situation where you have co founders, you could do something like this.

I'll give you an example of what we've done with one of our clients. So, you might have the salesperson go out and do the initial outreach, the initial discovery call, kind of qualify the opportunity, ask a bunch of questions, get a lot of, of details for you. And then maybe you have The president or the co founder who's more on the business side do the next call with that investor, and they talk about the backstory.

They talk about you as the visionary on the investment side. They talk about what they're building. They kind of. [00:28:00] They just tell the story, they touch on the investment side, but they don't go deep, and they really do talk about the business. Like, here's what we're building, and why, and who it's for, and all the things, okay?

And then, the last call might be with you, the visionary, the investment. person to dive deep into that process. So you can see how you can stagger, kind of create a structure where, again, you're putting people in their unique abilities and you're letting the founders be involved in the process, but you're doing so in a thoughtful way.

Okay, last question, question five, what's your unique? Now lots of marketing gurus will talk to you about competitive advantage, like what's your competitive advantage? I think it's more about your complementary advantage. Here's why. If you really [00:29:00] understand what makes you different, then you build a category of one.

What that means is you compliment other managers, even the ones in your category, even the ones perceived to be your direct competitors. You don't have to beat them. You can join them. So I want you to think about this. There are over 137, 000 registered funds globally. That was the number in 2022. Can you imagine that?

That's just registered funds. That doesn't include Private vehicles and other partnership structures. I mean, that's a lot of funds. And most managers, when they think about their peer group, they're thinking about how can I beat my peers quantitatively? I want you to think about how you can compliment your peers first qualitatively and then quantitatively.

So let's talk about that. A great way to uncover what [00:30:00] makes you different isn't to think about what you do, it's actually to do the opposite. It's to think about what you don't do. So you could do an exercise where you, on one side of a piece of paper, write down like here, the peers in your asset class, and write down the things that they typically do or typically believe.

And then on the other side of the paper, other column, I want you to write down from that list what you don't do and what you don't believe, and put what you believe instead. Right? So it's like, if the typical value investor has very low turnover, They buy and hold. If you are in value, a value investor who doesn't believe that that's the right philosophy, do you see what I mean?

You don't do that. And that's interesting. [00:31:00] That makes investors go, Hmm. Hmm. Tell me more about that. Fascinating. Why do you believe that different thing? Now, as you develop this list of differentiators, because you're forcing yourself to go through what you don't do. It's allowing you to see your uniques.

And you can do this exercise across all the parts of your business. So let's even go back up to hiring. Maybe you hire a different skill set or background on your team. Maybe all your peers hire Harvard MBAs and you don't, okay? And you can talk about what skills you look for in teammates. Maybe you leverage technology in a different way.

Maybe most investors don't use AI and you do, or maybe you've been using it for a long time in a very creative way. Maybe your core values show up differently than your peers. So maybe you are very inclined around a certain charity or, um, a certain [00:32:00] belief structure, and that shows up differently than your peers.

So, I mean, I'm talking about all parts of your business, say what is typically done, and that is usually what. You don't do and find those things. Okay. And then, of course, yes, you want to take that to the portfolio. How is it different? How is your philosophy different? How is your universe different? Maybe there are areas you don't invest in.

Or maybe there are areas you only invest in. Maybe there are types of companies you like that others don't, or vice versa. And then, yes, I know fund managers speak numbers. Quantitatively, how is the experience for an investor different with you than it might be for your peers? When do you zig when others zag?

And it's not enough to just show that with data. I want you to tell the narrative first. Talk about the philosophy, the process, the how, the why. you're zigging when others are zagging, and [00:33:00] then I want you to back that up with numbers, right? Here's the narrative, and here are the data points, the proof points.

All of this, the reason we're doing all of this, um, hard work here is because We want to fill a gap that investors need. That's a different angle, a different value prop, to use that language, than trying to beat out the other fund and steal some of their allocation. So again, if, if you are going at competitive advantage, then you're really looking at a situation and saying, huh, that allocator has 300 million with that value manager.

The only way I'm going to get an allocation is if I steal a piece of that money. Maybe not. Maybe, maybe the way that you get the allocation is to show that you're different, not better. No one is going to build a boutique or manage a fund the way you [00:34:00] will. There are going to be other people in that asset class, the same space, building boutiques.

They're not all competitors. They're not you. And in fact, when there are other firms similar to you, right. And in this whole story, we've been telling their potential collaborators more than anything, typically perceived as competitors, that's a good sign. That means that investors must like that niche, right?

Supply demand. If there's a lot of demand. For a certain type of strategy or an asset class, companies and fund managers are going to show up with product. And so it's not a bad thing if there's a lot of competitors, but it does mean that you have to get really clear. Windex clear, to use one of my friend's favorite phrases, on your niche.

and show them why you are unique, why you are a rare bird because you are. So that's a wrap for today's [00:35:00] episode about the five crucial questions you should ask yourself before starting an investment boutique. Remember, You are a talented portfolio manager, but launching a boutique also means you are now an entrepreneur.

It's not just about the portfolio anymore. It's about building a business, the back office, the front office, the investment office, the sales, the marketing, all the things. And there's no one size fits all solution or right way to build an investment boutique. You have to find the right way for you. One thing I do know, you can't do it alone.

So find people to help you and support you on the journey. It's a key to success. And if after this conversation you're excited to launch your own boutique or you already have, I'd love to help. The entire team at Havener would love to help. Sign up for Havener's newsletter. We are building classes and trainings to continue to help you as you [00:36:00] launch your firm or your fund.

And of course, If we can help you in any way, please don't hesitate to reach out. This podcast is for you. I am cheering for you. High five. If you know a fund manager or a founder in the investment world with a great story, drop a note to Stacy at Stacy Havener dot com and tell me about it till next time.

I'm Stacy Havener. Thanks for listening. And now a final word from our premier brand partner. Ultimis Fund Solutions. The conversion of Homer Berg's LP into an integral fund empowered them to grow the fund from 90 million to over 200 million and expand the reach from 100 investors to nearly 700 new investors and continues to grow today.

By pursuing the conversion, it, Homer Berg was able to lower minimums to 25, 000 welcome accredited investors. In addition to qualified purchasers, the entire [00:37:00] conversion process was highly efficient. Because Hallmark Berg chose to partner with Ultimis and other partners with a proven track record in this type of structure to structure product transition.

The headlines are often too focused on new interval funds from pedigreed providers. This new fund from this cool big firm, etc. Maximizing a fund's potential through a conversion can be a powerful too. As we see in the story of Homer Berg traditional investment management and alternative investment management are converging more retail investors are demanding access to non correlated strategies in a liquid asset classes to compliment or supplement public markets exposure interval and tender offer funds offer managers a flexible wrapper.

That combines many of the benefits of both 1940 act and private fund structures. Interest in these products has increased significantly in the past decade, and we anticipate the volume of both new launches and structure conversions to continue well into the future.[00:38:00]

This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. The information is not an offer, solicitation, or recommendation of any of the funds, services, or products, or to adopt any investment strategy. Investment values may fluctuate and past performance is not a guide to future performance.

All opinions expressed by guests on the show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their firm. Manager's appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement by Stacey Havener or Havener Capital Partners.

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