Episode 49: $500 Million Female Led Fund Team Within a $65 B Multi-Boutique | Small Cap Growth Specialist Rayna Lesser Hannaway of Polen Capital on Owning Your Story | Why Culture Matters

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There’s nothing a woman in a power suit can’t do. Shake up a male-dominated industry? Check. Redefine leadership? Check. Inspire generations to come? Check.

In this episode, Rayna Lesser Hannaway shares her inspiration for doing all of the above.

Listen as Rayna and Stacy discuss:

• Her backstory– from looking up to her fierce, go-getter lawyer mom to becoming a powerhouse female in finance
• How competitive company culture can sabotage the due diligence process
• Her approach to encouraging collaboration and keeping core values at the heart of Polen’s operation
• How collaboration can be a boutique’s secret sauce for standing out amongst the bigs

…and so much more.

About Rayna Lesser Hannaway:

Rayna heads the Small Company Growth Team, is the lead Portfolio Manager of Polen Capital's U.S. Small Company Growth and U.S. SMID Company Growth strategies, and is co-portfolio Manager of Polen Capital's Global SMID Company Growth strategy. 

Prior to joining Polen Capital in 2017, Rayna spent nine years in portfolio management and two years as a Research Analyst at Fidelity Investments in Boston, evaluating small and mid-cap companies. She also spent nine years working in small-cap research for Jennison Associates and Lord Abbett & Company. Rayna received a B.A. in Economics from Barnard College, a division of Columbia University, where she graduated summa cum laude in 1996. Rayna is a CFA® charterholder and holds a CFA Institute Certificate in ESG Investing. 

In 2021, Rayna launched Polen’s WISE employee resource group to support and promote an inclusive and supportive culture for women and their allies across the asset management industry. Rayna is currently a member of the Board of Directors at Big Brothers Big Sisters of Massachusetts Bay and the Board Chair at RAW Artworks.

Rayna holds a bachelor’s degree in economics (summa cum laude) from Barnard College, Columbia University. 

In her free time, Rayna enjoys skiing, hiking, yoga, volunteering in her community, traveling, and spending time with her family. 

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Song: U2 - Beautiful Day

Books: Start with Why by Simon Sinek, How to Know a Person by David Brooks, Living with a SEAL by Jesse Itzler

TRANSCRIPT

Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.

[00:00:00] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: As a woman in leadership, I think it's essential to really foster a culture where women can do really well and that it's our responsibility to tap those women on the shoulder and bring them along with us.

[00:00:18] Stacy Havener: Hey, my name is Stacey Havener. I'm obsessed with startups, stories, and sales. Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the toughest boys club, Wall Street.

[00:00:30] Stacy Havener: I've raised over 8 billion that has led to 30 billion in follow on assets for investment boutiques. You could say against the odds. Yeah. Understatement. I share stories of the people behind the portfolios while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes. It's real talk here. Money, authenticity, growth, setbacks, sales, and marketing are all topics we discuss.

[00:00:56] Stacy Havener: Think of this as the capital raising class you wish you had in college, [00:01:00] mixed with happy hour. Pull up a seat, grab your notebook, and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn. This is the Billion Dollar Backstory Podcast. COVID put a spotlight on the importance of face to face meetings.

[00:01:20] Stacy Havener: Because we lost the ability to have them, it also highlighted a new reality that real connection, real friendships can be built virtually to LinkedIn connected me with our next guest during that time, and I am super grateful. Meet Raina Lesser Hanaway, Head of Team, Portfolio Manager, and Analyst at Poland Capital.

[00:01:46] Stacy Havener: Raina is a specialist in

[00:01:47] Stacy Havener: small cap growth investing and a rare bird in our business as one of the OG Female Fund Managers. Her story will inspire you, not just to own your story, but [00:02:00] to help others own theirs. This conversation is about mentorship. It's about differentiators and classic truths. It's also about authenticity and culture and people.

[00:02:12] Stacy Havener: After all, that's what makes a business special. Trust me when I say you'll leave this episode with so many ideas about how you can take your real and your unique and your special and make them shine. Meet my friend, Raina. Reina, it's so awesome to have you here. I literally have been like bouncing up and down in my chair while we've been talking in the green room, which nobody can see on the podcast, but I share that with everyone.

[00:02:38] Stacy Havener: So they know how excited I am. You and I have been friends on LinkedIn since before COVID during COVID. This is the first time we are actually sort of talking face to face. I'll be on video. So I really want to thank you for being here.

[00:02:53] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Thank you, Stacey. I've been really excited to do this and I feel like while we never actually met each other in [00:03:00] person before and we're face to face like this that we truly do know each other.

[00:03:05] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I do too.

[00:03:05] Stacy Havener: I do too. And isn't that the beauty of LinkedIn? Which maybe we'll talk about as we go here because One of the ways that we connected really was around authenticity and story and being female, you know, leaders in this business. And that's where I'd love to start. I would love to hear more about your journey.

[00:03:28] Stacy Havener: To where you sit today as a talented fund manager in a really male dominated industry. Like, is that what you grew up wanting to be? No,

[00:03:38] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: but perhaps the best way to bring this to life is to talk about my mom. Okay. So I grew up in a loving family outside of New York City, and I really hit the jackpot because I have a mother who was a career trailblazer.

[00:03:55] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: She was a lawyer and an entrepreneur, still is today. But think [00:04:00] about what that was like as a young girl watching that in the 1970s and the 1980s. You know, I saw in my mom a woman who could do it all. professional success, you know, really showing up in the right ways for my brother and I and my father.

[00:04:19] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And it was truly inspiring and empowering and really set the foundation for who I am today. I learned from watching her that women can do anything and I can't think of a better beginning than that. I

[00:04:36] Stacy Havener: love that. Also, I'm just picturing her. I have no idea what she looks like, but in my mind right now, she's rocking power suits and just like walking around as just this really strong, powerful woman.

[00:04:48] Stacy Havener: I love that. So talk more about that. So you have this mom who's fantastic. She's, you know, she's trailblazing. And how does your interest in, like, how does that [00:05:00] play out? So, did you study in school? Did you, when did you realize investing was your jam? So,

[00:05:08] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I didn't realize until I was in college at Barnard that I wanted to pursue a career in finance.

[00:05:15] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: My mother had an early career as a lawyer and then started her own business. My father had a similar path starting off as a lawyer and then in a number of different areas. And I knew that I wasn't interested in those things. I was really interested in numbers and really interested in what made businesses tick.

[00:05:36] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And I studied. Economics and psychology. And what I knew at the time was that I really wanted to pursue something in finance, but I knew that I didn't want to do investment banking, which many of my friends who are a little bit older than me and had already started working, we're doing, and I wasn't that interested in sales and trading.

[00:05:59] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And so [00:06:00] I was able to say, here's what I don't want to do. And by doing that. I completely avoided all of the on campus recruiting, which at the time was only focused on those two things in finance. Today, it's broadened out quite a bit. And instead, I really went my own way and tried to find the right on ramp for myself to this business.

[00:06:24] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: So after I graduated in the summer of 1996, I engaged with a recruiter who focused entirely on financial services. And she suggested to me that I go meet this small cap portfolio manager at Lord Abbott, Stephen Magruder. And I went over to meet Stephen and He was looking for an administrative assistant, but we completely hit it off and he offered me the job three hours after I left his office.

[00:06:54] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And what I said to him was, I'd really like to come work for [00:07:00] you. I know that I'm capable of more than the administrative tasks. So if you promise to teach me everything that you know, we've got a deal. I'll take the job. And he lived up to that promise. I joined his team at Lord Abbott. I was person number three on a small cap growth team.

[00:07:23] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And while my early responsibilities were largely administrative, I actually took the initiative to immerse myself in equity research. One of the things I had to do every day was open up this giant stack of mail for anyone who remembers what being in this business was like before the Internet every day, we would have about two feet of mail of research reports and trade rags and newspapers, and I would have to go and open up each and every one.

[00:07:58] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I could have done [00:08:00] just that, but instead I started reading everything and learning about the businesses that were being described in these research reports, learning about the different trends at the time and really Training myself and how to unpack a company and how to understand an industry and how I really made my mark was in reading some of these trade rags.

[00:08:28] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I saw that lots of folks in the technology arena where Steven really had his deep expertise. We're talking about this thing. Y2K. If you remember. Approaching the year 2000, everyone was worried that our computers were all going to shut down and they couldn't handle that many digits and the change over to 2000, and I realized that this was a big issue.

[00:08:55] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And so I started studying companies that had solutions [00:09:00] back in 1996. to address the Y2K problem. And so I dove deep in software, in IT services, and I started to go to Steven with recommendations of companies that he should do more research on. And so that's really how I got my start and how I got my first names into the portfolio.

[00:09:24] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And I was doing all of this secretly, but before long, everyone at the firm realized what was really going on. And I got promoted to being a full analyst. Which was a pretty unusual thing there and then considering I was 22 years old and everyone else with that role around me was in their 30s, 40s, and 50s.

[00:09:48] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And that actually coincided with the emergence of the internet. And if you remember, you know, at the time there were a lot of folks Portfolio managers [00:10:00] and analysts with a lot of wisdom who had learned good lessons the hard way that didn't want to touch internet companies. They didn't really understand what they were all about.

[00:10:10] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: They certainly didn't like the lack of profitability. That these companies generated, they realized that it was all largely vaporware and these weren't real businesses yet, but me with a beginner mindset and not really hung up and with no baggage, raised my hand and I took my knowledge and experience software and IT services around the Y2K problem and pivoted to covering internet companies.

[00:10:40] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And so I had the good fortune of covering companies like Amazon when it went public and AOL when it went public. And I did that for the entire firm. Wow. Okay.

[00:10:54] Stacy Havener: First of all, let's pause because I mean, I just, [00:11:00] I love that you brought Steven ideas on your own at 22 as a woman in the investment industry.

[00:11:09] Stacy Havener: Like, where did that confidence come from? Did you just sort of say, like, I don't know, it's a cool, like, in some ways what you said at the end Really resonates for me, which is when we have kind of that beginner mindset or a little bit of naivete around how it's quote supposed to be done, it actually lets us be really creative because we don't know that we're not supposed to think this way, or we're not supposed to do this thing was that part of it?

[00:11:38] Stacy Havener: Or like, where did that confidence

[00:11:40] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: come from? I think that was part of it, but I think part of it too was working with someone like him, where he was at a stage in his career later in his career where he was really open to sharing everything that he knew with the people around him. And you're part of leaving [00:12:00] his mark was in mentoring and coaching others.

[00:12:03] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And Being a sponsor and a champion for someone like me. And so I think I was so lucky to have someone like that. He would literally let me sit in his office for three or four hours a day and listen in on calls he did with company management teams. And so I got a front row seat to how to do this work.

[00:12:27] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Just by shadowing him.

[00:12:29] Stacy Havener: Yeah. And

[00:12:29] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: he was just so open with his time and with his knowledge and with his teaching. That was something that I'll be forever grateful for and that I was really lucky for now that I better understand Yeah. how hard it is to get into this business. And it really taught me a lot about how it's essential to surround yourself with the right people.

[00:12:53] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And it also taught me a lot about who I want to be for the people around me.

[00:12:59] Stacy Havener: Yeah. [00:13:00] You just took the words right out of my mouth because it didn't just teach you about fund management. It taught you about being a good human, about being a good leader. And that's actually a great segue To serve where you are now.

[00:13:13] Stacy Havener: So obviously you were at Lord Abbott doing your thing covering the Internet. Talk about how you got to where you are today.

[00:13:21] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Absolutely. So I'm in my 28th year now, and I've been focused on small and mid cap 28 years. After about five years, I left Lord Abbott and moved on to Jenison Associates, where I also worked on their small cap team.

[00:13:42] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And then I left New York and I moved up to Boston to work at Fidelity, where I spent nearly 12 years. And then seven years ago, I joined Poland Capital, where I'm now the head of the small cap franchise here. And I function As not just the head of the team, but also [00:14:00] as a portfolio manager and as an analyst.

[00:14:03] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Gosh, right?

[00:14:05] Stacy Havener: Like, what a journey and the lessons that you learned by working with Steven, I'm sure are showing up so much now in your role, not only as a portfolio manager and analyst, but again, as I said before, as a leader and you're running small cap. This is fantastic. I want to talk about something that's not easy for fund managers to talk about.

[00:14:26] Stacy Havener: But since we're friends, we're going to have a great chat around this, which is differentiators. Now, you happen to be in a space that many of us love, myself included. Small cap was kind of always this really cool and still is really cool part of the market. Lots of inefficiencies, lots of that entrepreneurial vibe that you talked about earlier.

[00:14:50] Stacy Havener: So it's a cool space. Maybe not as crowded as some of the other parts of the market, but still, you've got some players there. What makes you different? [00:15:00] Like, really different?

[00:15:01] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Absolutely. And, you know, I'll start with my experience with Steven. And, you know, part of that is about surrounding yourself. with the right people.

[00:15:12] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: But part of it is about not settling for the prescribed way of doing things. And when I look at what we're doing here at Poland Capital, there are some pretty unique things that stand out. First is when you think about this business, It's largely built around single stock pickers. Okay. And so you've got analysts with long lists of companies that they know really well, but no one else around them knows them really well.

[00:15:47] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And what I found as an analyst, and then as a portfolio manager was that we're really not in a position to help each other in the best way and to get closer to the truth. In [00:16:00] the research process, if we're operating that way, and so when coming to pulling capital. We really set out to do it differently.

[00:16:09] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And the best way to capture this is to say, I believe in investing as a team sport. And for my entire career, it seemed to me like there was this missed opportunity for people to deeply collaborate with each other. And there were these information asymmetries. When people knew a lot about companies, but no one else around them knew what the right questions were to ask to get closer to the truth.

[00:16:36] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And so we built a team that does it differently. We function a bit more like a private equity team where multiple people might work on a single company together. And it requires a level of collaboration, a level of trust. It requires humility and a lot of psychological safety. Yeah, more [00:17:00] so than often exists inside the walls of an investment management firm on our team, where our best when we feel really comfortable challenging each other and when someone brings a perspective that is different.

[00:17:17] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: That instead of playing defense and defending our own points of view, we lean in and we get really, really curious, but this, it really requires a level of commitment to teamwork and to having a team first mindset that I've never seen before in my career. And it's something that I believe. Really brings an advantage.

[00:17:44] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And the advantage is about out teaming other teams. Ooh, when you think about an investment process, there is inevitably lots of bias and we all have blind spots and by. [00:18:00] Investing as a team sport, we can help to mitigate those biases and we can use the team to uncover our blind spots. But it really involves having people that will prioritize the team over themselves.

[00:18:16] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And that is really hard to find in this business.

[00:18:19] Stacy Havener: Okay, we have to pause here because that is so true and I want to go back a little bit because I think you hit on something that a lot of allocators try to get to the bottom of culture is this really interesting culture has come up on almost every podcast episode, whether it's with a fund manager.

[00:18:41] Stacy Havener: Talking about companies, they're evaluating whether it's with an allocator talking about fund managers are evaluating like it comes up every episode and what I think is really interesting about what you said is that culture is action what you talked about. The biases that we [00:19:00] have or just the job itself as an analyst, it is so much like this is mine.

[00:19:05] Stacy Havener: No one can see me, but I have my arms crossed. I'm like hugging my ideas and I don't want to let anyone in and my compensation can be aligned with that. Like, there can be a ton of incentives that perpetuate this kind of behavior of like, this is mine and not yours, even though we're on the same team. In order for my idea to get in, your idea can't, right?

[00:19:29] Stacy Havener: And so what you're saying is like, we're not going

[00:19:32] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: to do that. Yeah, we're not going to do that. And we make that very clear in the interviewing process. And then when someone comes to join our team, I've got a document in my hand now. Yeah. It says small company team norms and basically what it is, is a document that captures what we value our core values, norms of behavior on the team.

[00:19:57] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Yeah, action. And it gives [00:20:00] people a roadmap to understand. What it looks like to be a part of an investment team that views investing as a team sport. And so what you would see here if we had this document live is we have a team first mentality. We build a more comprehensive understanding by bringing together diverse perspectives, diverse backgrounds, viewpoints, and expertise.

[00:20:30] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: We believe in collective success and prioritize the team's achievements over individual achievements.

[00:20:39] Stacy Havener: Which is what we were just talking about.

[00:20:40] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: We are driven by purpose and this purpose pushes us to become better investors and people and to bring out the best in each other. I love that. I've got four pages here that brings this to life.

[00:20:56] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And we give this to everyone from the moment that they [00:21:00] join our team. And it's a document that we frequently revisit.

[00:21:04] Stacy Havener: Yeah, because it's not pithy quotes on the wall in the coffee break room. You know, it's like this is how your values and your culture should tell people how to behave in real life, in the moment, in, you know, situations where you're doing your work every day.

[00:21:24] Stacy Havener: Like that to me is great. I love that. What else? Are there other things you'd highlight as differentiators? Of course! And you don't have to force it if that's, like, the primary one. That's absolutely fine.

[00:21:36] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I would love to give a plug here for Poland Capital, because I don't think it would be possible to do something like this if I weren't surrounded by a group of people that really value culture.

[00:21:48] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And that thing differently. And that's why I joined the firm back in 2017 to bring this to life. I'll tell you a little bit about my first time visiting [00:22:00] our office in Boca. I was there for interviews. And the plan was to do a two day series of interviews where I met about 16 people or so in the firm, which was about half of the people in the firm at the time.

[00:22:16] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And when I arrived in the front reception area, Denise, who is this awesome woman, she's the office manager in our Boca office. She immediately welcomed me and she said, let me take you over to our Y wall. She took me over to a wall that showed pictures of many of Pulling Capital's public sector clients.

[00:22:42] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And then there were also pictures of different charities and volunteer engagements that the firm was involved in. And I knew in that moment that Poland capital was a different kind of place. And it really spoke to me. It told me that there [00:23:00] was this client first focus. Yeah, that was really different than what I had seen before, where people here were really leading and working from a place of purpose and that why wall.

[00:23:13] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: You know, what it said to me is, this is who we do it for. And that spoke volumes to me. And so when you think about that as a foundation and being part of a group of people, you know, working from this place of purpose and really embracing culture. Another great story to bring this to life is About a month before I started, I got a FedEx package and on my doorstep, there were 10 books, 10 books that our CEO sent to me.

[00:23:44] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Things like Simon Sinek's Start With Why. And I ferociously read them all before I started at Pullen and it set the foundation for me to understand, here's what we believe in. And then [00:24:00] also that I was surrounded by folks that were humble and that were continuous learners.

[00:24:06] Stacy Havener: And

[00:24:07] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: so, you know, I'll bring it back to our team here, coming to a place like Poland Capital, where the culture is known to be exceptional.

[00:24:17] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And I had this great first experience with that culture. It gave me the agency to do things differently. Then I had seen before, and I don't know, had I been somewhere else without that foundation in place that I would have been able to do that.

[00:24:36] Stacy Havener: Are you an investment boutique looking to grow your business and need a little help if you feel like you're fighting for the spotlight and well, still stuck in the shadows of the bigs, join us in the boutique investment collective.

[00:24:47] Stacy Havener: Haveners new membership community dedicated to the specialist in the investment. In the collective, we'll guide you through the billion dollar blueprint we've used to help boutiques add over 30 billion in AUM. [00:25:00] You'll refine your story, focus on your ideal target market, and practice your pitch. You'll rethink your marketing materials, rewrite your emails, and refresh your differentiators.

[00:25:10] Stacy Havener: We'll even help you step up your LinkedIn game and give your profile a makeover. You want to grow your biz, we've got your back. Learn more about The Collective, the curriculum, and the amazing coaches who will help you on your journey. Visit HavenerCapital. com slash Collective. High five! Hope to see you in a coaching session soon.

[00:25:37] Stacy Havener: Wow, the why wall, like everyone listening is like making a note right now. Why wall? I'm starting to have a why wall like that is so cool and the books and just the thoughtfulness. Yeah. Now I have a question and I don't know if this is just a word that you use or if there's meaning behind it. But when you were describing your team, I noticed you said [00:26:00] franchise.

[00:26:01] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: So at Poland Capital, we have four different separate investment teams that function as autonomous investment teams. I'm the head of our small company franchise. We have a large company franchise down in Boca Raton, Florida. That was the first team at the firm. They've been there operating very successfully for a long time.

[00:26:24] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: We have an emerging markets franchise. In London and some folks also in Hong Kong. And then we also have a high yield franchise here in Waltham, Massachusetts. So right next door, we actually have almost as many employees here in Massachusetts at Poland capital, as we do down in Florida, where our headquarters are.

[00:26:45] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And what I would say is that we have a lot of autonomy when it comes to investing and we're supported. By all of these great functions throughout the firm, you think legal, [00:27:00] compliance, marketing, our operating committee, HR, that collectively supports all of the different investment teams. And we obviously, you know, we need all of those different pieces to make it work.

[00:27:16] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: But we, as the individual investment franchises, you know, we have a lot of freedom to do things our own way. There's

[00:27:24] Stacy Havener: intention. Yeah, there's intention around that word. And that's what I was wondering because, obviously, learning more about Poland and the culture and kind of the, just the vibe. I see why you say that because it communicates something.

[00:27:41] Stacy Havener: It communicates something different. I love that. Okay. So I have, I have more questions now because qualitative has been, I mean, we've been chatting for 20 plus minutes and we're all qualitative, which of course I love and the stories. And so two sides to this. The first [00:28:00] side is when you are evaluating companies, Do you take a similarly qualitative approach to kind of getting to know the companies and the culture the way that you just described internally at Pullen?

[00:28:13] Stacy Havener: That's part one. And part two is, when you're meeting with allocators, do you find that this same kind of conversation around qualitative is really important to them? So kind of portfolio and then also clients?

[00:28:26] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Absolutely. So I'll start by talking about a second differentiator of ours. We talked a lot already about how we function as a team and the way we work collaboratively, but there's also something else that's pretty different.

[00:28:40] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And it's that we do small cap and smid cap, but we only focus on proven companies that are generating cashflow. And that's pretty unique within the small cap universe today in the Russell 2000 growth, over 40 percent of the companies are [00:29:00] non earning. I don't mean to laugh. I don't understand that.

[00:29:06] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Frankly, I don't understand it either, and it's part of why I joined Poland Capital. So, not only do we have a great culture here, we have a very clear focus for our investments, and it's owning all of them. The best companies that we can find that are competitively advantaged that meet our guardrails in terms of profitability and return.

[00:29:32] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Yeah. And have fantastic management teams that are appropriately balancing. What's happening today and investing in the future. And I believe that those things are really important. If you want to find a small company that has the fighting chance at being a big company one day. And when you think about what it means not to generate cash flow and earnings, to [00:30:00] me, it leaves management teams with too much outside of their control.

[00:30:05] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Okay. Because they're always needing to figure out where the dollars are going to come from to fund their futures. And so instead, I think a much less risky path and one where management has a lot more inside their control is if they're not just generating earnings in cash flow, but they're generating enough.

[00:30:30] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: That there's surplus cashflow that they can always be reinvesting in their future Then they can continue to differentiate themselves and they can keep that compounding engine going And so that's what we do here The other thing that really stood out to me about poland when I first encountered the firm Was that?

[00:30:53] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: In our flagship strategy, the focus growth portfolio at the time [00:31:00] in 2017, there were five companies. It was about a quarter of the portfolio were companies that I covered when they were small cap. And that really spoke to me about the alignment. And it also was really exciting to think about, okay, we're really aligned in terms of the types of companies we're looking for.

[00:31:22] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: How exciting would it be if we gave. clients the opportunity to own these great companies much earlier in their life cycle.

[00:31:31] Stacy Havener: Yeah. So when you talk about the earnings thing is still, my brain is still twisted on it, but we're going to just leave that to the side. So when you're talking about these, okay, so first you, you're like, we're actually only going to invest in the companies who are earning money.

[00:31:45] Stacy Havener: That seems very logical to me. So are you having, like, do you meet them in person? Do you meet the management teams? Do you talk to them on the phone? Like how do you do the qualitative? component. I'm assuming that that's an important part for you.

[00:31:58] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: It is. And we do a lot of [00:32:00] quantitative work and qualitative work.

[00:32:02] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Typically for a company that we're interested in, we may spend many months before we decide to invest in that business.

[00:32:10] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:32:10] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And we have the luxury of doing that because we're long term focused. Our average turnover is between three and four years. So we're owning these companies for a while. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

[00:32:22] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And we keep the quality bar really, really high and we're concentrated. And so when you think about keeping the quality bar high, which you really can only do on a concentrated basis, cause these kinds of companies are hard to find and then owning them for a while, it actually gives us the luxury. Of going really deep and spending a lot of time getting to know these companies.

[00:32:48] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Yeah. And it also gives us the luxury to work together in the way that I described before. Yeah. Where we can dedicate multiple resources to work on a single [00:33:00] idea. In terms of meeting with management teams, we do always meet with the management teams of the companies that we invest in. Sometimes we meet with them several times before we make an investment, but we always do a lot of work before we first meet with them.

[00:33:17] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And I think that part is very different. Yeah, we often will study these businesses for a month or so before we have our first conversation. And then when we have that conversation, we can really contextualize what they're saying. Yeah. And we have more strategic questions to ask. And so it's a different kind of conversation.

[00:33:40] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And it's one that the management teams that we engage with Really like to because they see that we're long term focus. They see that we're investing our resources in really getting to know their companies. And I find that to be the most disarming thing of [00:34:00] all. When you're in a conversation with people, they know you care.

[00:34:05] Stacy Havener: Not something you hear a lot of, uh, investment teams talking about, folks. Yes, Reina did just say care in a conversation about analyzing companies. You heard it here first. Okay, so now that was fabulous. So let's talk about what it's like when you meet with allocators, because I think this is a misconception for a lot of fund managers that they think You know, sort of the marginal basis point out performance is the deciding factor of an allocator's portfolio composition.

[00:34:41] Stacy Havener: And I mean, I'm being a bit extravagant in that statement, but the point being, you know, there is a disconnect sometimes between the fund manager's perception of what matters to the allocator and what actually matters to the allocator. And I think what's interesting about what you just said there at the end [00:35:00] is you said, you know, before we meet with a company, we do a ton of work so that when we go into the meeting, we can focus on the things that we can't get on our own.

[00:35:09] Stacy Havener: Right? And the allocators say the same thing. It's like, I want to do the work with the data that I can access. I don't need to spend our time in the meeting reviewing that. I already have it. I want to talk about, you know, I want to unpack it. I want to know what's underneath it. I want to get to know you as a team and people.

[00:35:29] Stacy Havener: And so do you find that your meetings have more of this qualitative kind of culture vibe to them when you're meeting with

[00:35:35] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: allocators? I do find that and I certainly believe that people invest in people and it's our job to authentically bring to life what we're doing here and how it's different. And so we spend a lot of time talking about culture.

[00:35:52] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: We talk about our strategic advantage as a team and our goal to out team other teams and where that [00:36:00] edge comes from. We talk a lot about. Why we only focus on profitable companies and, you know, for me. There's a lot to unpack there. When you think about where I started my career in my key values, they were forged in the.

[00:36:18] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: com boom and bust. And while I was lucky to bring a beginner's mindset to studying those companies and that really helped me launch my career, I saw far too many small companies during that time that had. Good strategic vision, but they lacked basically everything else. I also saw companies at that time like Amazon or Netflix a little bit later in the early 2000s.

[00:36:54] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Yeah. That went on to be some of the biggest and most successful companies we know today. [00:37:00] And so I've spent a lot of time thinking and we spent a lot of time As a team studying, what are the conditions that need to be in place? For a company to really have that kind of long term compounding potential.

[00:37:16] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And when I think back to that time and those lessons, they've become my guiding principles. And this is something we spend a lot of time on with allocators because it is different. Yeah. And there are so many unprofitable small companies. And while it sounds funny to say that over 40. To, you know, 40 to 50 percent of companies are unprofitable and many of them are highly leveraged too.

[00:37:42] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: So it's like a double whammy. Yeah. The reality is, is that a lot of folks are investing in those companies. And while there may be some true gems in there, and we're always looking to find companies that are delivering great incremental returns and incremental [00:38:00] operating profit, and trying to find those companies that Going to break out and be a big winner and be very profitable.

[00:38:08] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: For every one of those, there's many, many that go the other direction and that really don't have what it takes to grow longer and stronger. And we're trying to find the ones that grow longer and stronger. And so we have a system in place. That really is the common language and the roadmap for the team to make sure that we evaluate each company and identify whether they have those conditions.

[00:38:38] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And so for us, it's really about finding companies that are uniquely positioned, that have competitive advantages.

[00:38:45] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:38:45] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And that are operating in industries that really lend. themselves to both creating and sustaining competitive advantages. We want to find the potential for deep

[00:38:57] Stacy Havener: moats

[00:38:58] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: and then we're looking for [00:39:00] repeatability and by that we really want to understand where our company's growth is going to come from in the future.

[00:39:07] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And we want to make sure that there's a lot that's inside of management's control. And so we look for a real recipe that they follow to repeat their success. And we want to make sure that there's skill there, not just luck, because there are a lot of small cap companies that get lucky with one product or service, but they can't do it again.

[00:39:30] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Mm hmm. Yes. Aren't there also a lot of fund managers who have that same thing, right? I do think that that's true. And I think that's part of why as a fund manager, it's so important, whether you're having good times or bad times, to reflect and understand What's driving the good and what's driving the bad and learn from it.

[00:39:54] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Yeah. But before we move on, I should point out the other few things we look at [00:40:00] as part of our flywheel system. And the third one is a robust business model. And this gets to the quantitative that you were asking about. We really care about the numbers and we're looking for companies that have. Really strong margins, especially strong gross margins, which are often indicative of having a lot of pricing power.

[00:40:22] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: We want to find companies that are generating high returns on capital, not just enough to sustain the business. But we want to see that excess cash flow so that company management teams can always be reinvesting for the future. And then, of course, we want great balance sheets. You know, that's another piece where it leaves a lot outside of their control.

[00:40:48] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: If they need to borrow a lot to grow. And we think that that's simply too risky. When it comes to management teams, we're looking for a few things. When I reflect on Why [00:41:00] companies failed early in my career, you heard me say before that many of them had great strategic vision, but they lacked everything else.

[00:41:09] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: So what's the everything else they often, they didn't have a lot of fiscal discipline. They didn't understand much about capital allocation and they oftentimes didn't have the execution ability to make their dreams come true. And so they couldn't make that vision a reality. And so when we're evaluating management teams.

[00:41:32] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: We're looking for proof that all of those things are in place. Sure. And then the last piece that we look for is this reinvestment behavior. We want to make sure that these great companies that are, they're growing, they've got high margins and returns, That they're always investing for the future because if they're not, they're moving backwards because others are coming in and competing those profits away.

[00:41:59] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And [00:42:00] so that's our system. We call it the flywheel and we won't invest in a business unless all of those pieces are in place in addition to it meeting our IRR hurdles.

[00:42:10] Stacy Havener: So thank you for sharing that. I mean, it's interesting because now I have to say you're a growth manager, right? Yeah, we are growth managers.

[00:42:18] Stacy Havener: And so a lot of the things that you talked about remind me very much of what you would hear from a value manager.

[00:42:24] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Yeah, I think what I would say here is that We're very much growth managers, but we do it with more discipline. The way I like to characterize it is quality and service of growth. What I've seen is that when you're growth alone and you're not generating those cash flows that you need to reinvest in your future, and there's so much outside of your control.

[00:42:50] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: It can be a roller coaster for many of those companies, and it's often hard for them to sustain success over a long [00:43:00] period of time. And then on the flip side, what I found, if you invest in quality alone, those companies are often In the earliest stages of decline, and you're really limiting your compounding potential because they're not investing in the future.

[00:43:15] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And that's why their margins and returns are so high and they're not growing. And so they're essentially moving backwards. And so what we're doing is we're looking for the intersection of the two to answer your question about the resemblance to being a value manager. Yeah. I think where it rhymes is that we care about margin of safety, but the margin of safety isn't in the valuation.

[00:43:42] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: It comes from the quality of the business.

[00:43:44] Stacy Havener: Okay. Yeah. And even like you're phrasing around moats and stuff, that's all just like very kind of classic value speak, if you will. That's great, Raina. I'm so glad you shared that. Element your process, because it is [00:44:00] different. I think growth, look, as somebody who raises money for a living, small cap growth was always tough, I have to be honest.

[00:44:08] Stacy Havener: Because when it worked, it was great. You know, when it was in favor, it was great. But it was volatile as heck, typically. Right? And people whipsaw. Yeah. They couldn't stand that web saw and I think as I'm listening to you talk, what would be interesting for me if I play the allocator is to kind of see how does this philosophy show up in the data.

[00:44:30] Stacy Havener: And to me, that's the thing. It's kind of the story and the narrative first and then the data supports it. So that's the thing. What I envision an allocator would be doing is, okay, this all sounds fantastic. It makes a lot of sense. Investing in companies that generate money is kind of a good thing. And also now let me see how this shows up in the data.

[00:44:53] Stacy Havener: And I love the combination of those two things. I want to Switch gears a bit [00:45:00] and talk about this is just like the role of specialists in this ecosystem and how you find it in kind of the asset class that people always quotes turn to for like, Oh, yeah, you know, if you're going to go with a boutique and you're going to go with active management, you know, small cap equity is just such a great place.

[00:45:25] Stacy Havener: Do you find that that's still. A thing? Like, has that changed? Has it become more difficult for you the way it has for other active managers as a

[00:45:35] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: specialist? There certainly are a lot of headwinds today that active managers are dealing with, and we're no different. I think that the biggest challenge today is passive.

[00:45:48] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And the fact that the indexes have been delivering extraordinary results that are really coming from just a narrow group of companies. And [00:46:00] that's hard to compete with. Yeah. So that phenomenon is happening in small cap as well. I think that in small cap, investors and allocators, they still appreciate that small cap has a lot of inefficiencies.

[00:46:15] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Mm hmm. And they understand the value of active management in small cap. Mm hmm. But we are dealing right now with some of the same dynamics in terms of, Mm hmm. Strange index behaviors in small cap, as some have seen in large cap. And so I think there are areas where it rhymes, but there's still value to be had it in small cap and it really comes by digging into the companies one at a time.

[00:46:48] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I personally think it's really dangerous that the index has such a high number of unprofitable companies. It was going to be my next

[00:46:57] Stacy Havener: question. I mean, that's [00:47:00] kind of just in and of itself. The index composition has to be, I mean, it's basically a huge differentiator just from the get. Yeah. It's like, look, if this percentage of the index doesn't make money, I don't want to tell you like, do with that what you will.

[00:47:15] Stacy Havener: I mean, but if you're going passive there. I don't know. I'm not a fund manager, but it just the simple, you know, it's just sort of the logical part of me is like, doesn't seem like a great setup at some point.

[00:47:28] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Yeah, at some point. And I will say, look, there's points in time where having that focus on quality and profitability, it works against us.

[00:47:38] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: We're actually in one of those times right now where. Off of the October small cap bottom, you know, what we've seen is that lower quality companies are performing much better than higher quality companies. And you get that dynamic sometimes in the market, especially around kind of these kind of more early cycle behaviors in anticipation [00:48:00] of a cut in rates and considering how weak small cap has been for quite some time.

[00:48:05] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: But I don't believe that can persist over the longterm. And what we've typically seen in small cap cycles is that it starts with the lower quality companies, but what really matters next is earnings growth and cashflow growth, and you can't do that if you don't have any earnings.

[00:48:27] Stacy Havener: It's hard to grow something that's not there. Yeah. Yeah. You'd have to materialize it first. Yeah. Great point. So when you think about your career and your journey, both as an individual, but also, you know, as an investor, I want to do two pieces here. The first, and maybe they're the same, but I want to acknowledge that there might be nuance to it.

[00:48:50] Stacy Havener: So the first is, sort of what advice, given you've worked at a lot of different places, and it sounds like you were very early at Lord Abbott, what advice would you have [00:49:00] for somebody who's starting a boutique or, you know, kind of newer in the sort of emerging manager category and building? What advice would you have for them?

[00:49:11] Stacy Havener: And then what advice would you have for women? in the industry because I think you kind of have two unique vantage points here. Maybe

[00:49:20] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I'll start with the second one first. Okay. So when I think about being a woman in investing, and especially when I think about being a senior woman in investing, I often reflect on what I saw early in my career, which was reminiscent of the devil wears Prada, frankly, where there was just this like fierce competition for success and this cutthroat rivalry amongst women.

[00:49:49] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And unfortunately, I think that still lingers in some corners of our industry today. And I believe it's the reason why we haven't made that much [00:50:00] progress. As women in this business, we're still in a place today where only 10 percent of portfolio managers are women. And it always has frustrated me that the women, and this certainly doesn't apply to everyone there.

[00:50:14] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I had the influence of some great ones too, but the generation of women that preceded me in this business, they were often fighting for the same seat at the table rather than lifting each other up and adding seats to the table. And I've really tried to take a different approach as a woman in leadership.

[00:50:36] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I think it's essential to really foster a culture where women can do really well and that it's our responsibility to tap those women on the shoulder and bring them along with us. And so my advice for women and your first for the older women that can be the role models [00:51:00] and that have the leverage to sponsor other women inside of their organizations, please join me and in making a difference at this.

[00:51:11] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And then for the young women, I would just encourage them. To really put themselves out there and focus more on finding those people that are going to be the sponsors and champions, because that can make all the difference. You know, I talked a lot about Steven when we were first starting this conversation.

[00:51:33] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: He was my sponsor and champion, and I'm so lucky to have had. that experience early in my career, but we as leaders, we get to make those experiences for people. And that's something that I take really seriously. That's

[00:51:50] Stacy Havener: right. It's so true. And it goes back to the beginning of the conversation where you said it's about finding the right people to be around.

[00:51:59] Stacy Havener: And [00:52:00] I think, probably, same for me, like, maybe we didn't have a lot of intention around that in the beginning, like, I don't know if I knew that that's what I was doing, but then you find yourself in a situation with a great mentor or a great champion, as you said, and you're like, oh my gosh, with hindsight, how lucky was I to be in that place with those people or person at that time.

[00:52:24] Stacy Havener: And to create that environment for someone else is certainly legacy. Yeah. I think. Yeah. That's amazing. And that's probably also true just in general, but more so for women, I think. But how about for boutiques? I mean, it's a hard road. In any environment, I think it's become even more challenging as a boutique, as a specialist to try to compete in this environment.

[00:52:51] Stacy Havener: What other advice or additional advice would you have for them? So

[00:52:55] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I think my best advice is to stay humble. You know, when [00:53:00] I think about what I've observed in this business and what I've succumbed to myself at times in this business is that, you know, often after a period of success, like it's easy to boast and brag.

[00:53:12] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: But that success is often fleeting and there's a lot of ups and downs and it reminds us, I'm always reminded that success isn't linear and it's important not to make this a solitary journey. Instead, you really need to be open to collaborating with others, to letting different perspectives in, to being open to learning, and to learn from your mistakes.

[00:53:40] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: It's so easy to be stuck in this place where You believe that the way that it worked for you in the past or what got you here is going to get you there. And that's simply not true. You know, we're operating in a really dynamic environment. Investing [00:54:00] requires us to be open minded. It requires us to be cognitively flexible.

[00:54:06] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: It requires us to Be open to updating our views along the way. And none of that comes without humility. And it doesn't come unless you have the right temperament. You know, when I think about all the, of the different challenges over time and right now, it really requires a balance of patience. and of resilience and it requires kind of maintaining a steady temperament.

[00:54:36] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Yeah.

[00:54:37] Stacy Havener: Gosh, I'm thinking about your mom and your dad who were entrepreneurs. And when you said resilience and patience, I mean, these are all things that entrepreneurs have to learn to accept if they want to be successful, because nothing happens on the timeline that we want it to happen. And I think that All of it, the [00:55:00] humility, the self reflection, just the work that it takes to, you know, reflect on mistakes and to embrace this patience, passion, yes, but patience and grit and resilience is such fantastic advice.

[00:55:13] Stacy Havener: I want to switch gears a little bit Raina with you to talk about, I got to find my little questions. These aren't fast fire per se, but they're sort of, you know, we're of the same generation. So you might remember inside the actor's studio with James Lipton, sorry to anybody who's It's not of an age that you remember it.

[00:55:36] Stacy Havener: It was always one of my favorite shows. And these questions are patterned after that. It's a version of Proust questionnaire. Okay. Are you ready? I'm ready. I'm not going to ask you what your favorite curse word is. Don't worry. Okay. What book inspires

[00:55:50] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: you? All right. So I read a book last year, how to know a person by David Brooks.

[00:55:56] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Oh, and I can't get it out of my head. The [00:56:00] book, it really encourages people to go beyond surface level judgments and truly understand other people. And I love this because I feel like we all have this unique and rich story to tell, but oftentimes people only scratch the surface and don't really go there.

[00:56:20] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And if you don't go there, it's really hard to put yourself in their shoes. And envision the world from their perspective. And so I believe that this book, this message, it's essential. It's what we need to develop empathy and to have deeper connections with people. And I think that that's important today for so many reasons.

[00:56:43] Stacy Havener: Gosh, that's one of my favorite parts of the conversation so far. Love that. I am reading that. We will be chatting about it on LinkedIn. Join us if you want to have this impromptu book club here. Okay, next question. I'm very curious what your answer to this is going to be. What place [00:57:00] inspires you? What's your happy place?

[00:57:01] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Wow. This is tricky because you know, I love the beach. I am most inspired when I'm in the mountains. I love that was my other idea. I spend a lot of time skiing out in park city. And there's this one area called mystic pines, which is kind of bump skiing inside of these very tall trees. And when the sun's out, you can see that kind of glistening in the snow.

[00:57:30] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: That's definitely my happy place and really on any ski mountain. I'm super happy and it's often where I do my best thinking and also my best relaxing.

[00:57:41] Stacy Havener: I don't think I'm anywhere near the skier you are, but I will say there's something about that fresh air and that quiet. There's nothing like the quiet.

[00:57:51] Stacy Havener: Like it gives me chills of being on a ski mountain. It's pretty, pretty special. And I like that you gave the beach sort of runner out there. [00:58:00] Okay. Next question. You're going to give a presentation as this fantastic leader in finance. You're taking the stage. What is the walkout anthem they play?

[00:58:12] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Wow. So this I thought was one of the harder questions to answer.

[00:58:18] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And it reminded me of an exercise that I did about six years ago. I don't know if you're familiar with Jesse Itzler. Have you ever seen him? Yeah, yeah. So I was lucky to take one of his inaugural Build Your Life resume coaching classes, like directly with him. And oh, cool. Yeah. I actually sought him out after reading his book, Life with Seal, where he hired David Goggins to be his coach.

[00:58:47] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And anyways, as part of this like six week group coaching session, we had to make our own mixtapes, you know, very 80s esque and no way. I made this [00:59:00] playlist on Spotify and I called it, I've got this. And I actually listened to it this morning on my way driving to work because I was like, well, Which song am I going to pick?

[00:59:12] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: Yeah. What did you come up with? You know what? I think for today, I'm going to go with Beautiful Day. And the reason why I like it is because it's just a reminder to, you know, live each day to the fullest and live in the present moment. And that's how I try to live my every day.

[00:59:31] Stacy Havener: That's so good. I mean, let's just give a nod to the mixtape.

[00:59:34] Stacy Havener: Can we? Because our children will never know what it's like to sit there hitting the record button and the play button at the same time to really capture every little note of that song and decorating your, your cassette tape cover. They'll never know. Okay, what profession other than your own would you like to attempt?

[00:59:57] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: So, I'm sort of obsessed with health [01:00:00] and especially kind of natural health or any sort of integrative medicine. Oh, yeah. My friends often call me if they have medical problems or people in my family and ask, you know, what should I do? I love it. And so like my answer there would have to be an integrative medicine doctor.

[01:00:18] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: So good. That it was really focused on kind of natural healing modalities because I believe in all of that stuff and have personally benefited from it.

[01:00:27] Stacy Havener: Ditto. In this next life where you're that profession, I will be your client. Okay. Flip side. What profession would you not like to do?

[01:00:36] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: So I'm actually going to go with another medical role, which is while I have tremendous respect for surgeons, I don't think that that's something that would work well for me.

[01:00:48] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And it's for a couple of reasons. I think the first is I love the dynamicism. Of looking at different companies and learning different industries and basically [01:01:00] mixing it up and kind of spreading my wings really wide and learning about a lot of things. And when I think about what it takes to be a really great surgeon, you need to be able to do the same surgery over and over and over again and perfect that.

[01:01:16] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And so it's really, it requires a different mindset.

[01:01:19] Stacy Havener: Yeah, it's like exacting precision of the same thing over and over. Yeah, you're right. That is very interesting. Okay, last one. What do you want people to say after you've retired or left the industry?

[01:01:33] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: So I think what you would hear from any investor is that they want to enable the financial futures of their clients.

[01:01:40] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: And that's important to me. And what's also really important to me, and this will come as no surprise, is that I want to leave A lasting impact on the people around me. You know, I want to do for them what my mom did for me. I want to do for them what Steven Magruder did for me. And so it's really [01:02:00] about mentorship.

[01:02:01] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: It's about empowering. It's about helping to bring out the best in people. And that's part of why I actually put myself out there on LinkedIn. You know, that's where you and I met. And what gave me the motivation to put myself out there and what I believe in is I want to be able to share some of the things that I've learned along the way and just say them out loud for people and get them to think about it because others might not do that for them.

[01:02:35] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I find that it's hard for people to go there. It's hard to share some of that knowledge and wisdom and be vulnerable like that with people. And sometimes when you do it in person, it doesn't always land the best way.

[01:02:50] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[01:02:50] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: But I find that on a medium like LinkedIn, it works really well. I'm so proud of you

[01:02:56] Stacy Havener: for sharing.

[01:02:57] Stacy Havener: Okay. First of all, we sort of have to separate [01:03:00] these two topics because one, I definitely think you will leave a legacy of the leadership that you experienced both from your mom and with Steven. Like it was woven throughout this entire conversation. I know that's because that's how you live your life.

[01:03:17] Stacy Havener: So that's amazing. Two, we have the LinkedIn piece, which we never talked about because we just talked about everything else under the sun. So I want to spend a minute on this because it is very challenging, especially in this industry to be authentic and certainly to share on LinkedIn and you do it really well.

[01:03:38] Stacy Havener: And you do it with bravery and you post selfies and you take pictures of you kind of in the wild, so to speak, like living, like skiing or at the beach or just living your life. And I wish more people would do that. And so I think that in its own way is also leadership and legacy. And then both of those [01:04:00] vibes I share, and I'm just really proud to know you.

[01:04:02] Rayna Lesser Hannaway: I'm proud to know you too and say, say, I have to say that the message that you put out there on LinkedIn, I think gives people like me courage to do that and to be authentic and to tell our stories and, and so thank you.

[01:04:17] Stacy Havener: Okay. Don't make me cry. I'm supposed to make you cry, not the other way around. I appreciate that.

[01:04:24] Stacy Havener: Those are the types of words and flowers that keep me going. So thank you Raina for being here and for being amazing. Thank you. And we'll have to do this again soon. But until then, meet us on LinkedIn, people. We're there and we're welcoming you with open arms. Thank you, Stacey. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions.

[01:04:46] Stacy Havener: The information is not an offer, solicitation, or recommendation of any of the funds, services, or products, or to adopt any investment strategy. Investment values may fluctuate and past performance is not a guide to future performance. [01:05:00] All opinions expressed by guests on the show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their firm.

[01:05:06] Stacy Havener: Manager's appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement by Stacey Havener or Havener Capital Partners.

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