Episode 80: From Multi-Billion Ziff Brothers to $150B Research Affiliates Partner to Wealth Management Founder. Meet Jonathan Treussard, Founder of Treussard Capital

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At 17, Jonathan Treussard hopped on a one-way flight from Paris to LA with dreams of being a musician.  

He didn’t wind up playing jazz professionally, but he did end up managing billions for some of the world’s wealthiest families. 

Listen in as Jonathan and Stacy discuss his big pivot from music to finance, plus: 

• The lessons he learned navigating the Great Financial Crisis at Ziff Brothers Investments

• His perspective on balancing risk, regret, and resilience in wealth management

• The gap he saw in traditional wealth management that led him to start his own firm, Treussard Capital

• How he uses storytelling to break down complex financial concepts for his clients

More About Jonathan:

Jonathan Treussard, Ph.D., is the founder of Treussard Capital Management LLC, a registered investment advisor that operates as a fiduciary for its clients. With over two decades of experience at the top of academia, billion-dollar family offices, and global asset management, Jonathan brings an unparalleled background to guide you and your portfolio through complex financial landscapes.

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Academic achievements:

• Ph.D. in Economics (Econometrics and Finance) from Boston University, awarded a full Presidential Fellowship.

• B.A. in Economics and International Studies from UCLA, graduated Summa Cum Laude and with College Honors.

• Professor of Finance and Investments at Boston University, MIT, and Chapman .

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TRANSCRIPT

Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors. 

[00:00:00] Jonathan Treussard: If you're asking me what's investing about. And I'm like, it's about sitting with discomfort. Discomfort is a okay. It's part of life. It's part of what I do professionally. But the point is like, is there something uncomfortable about being a founder and starting a thing from the ground up and all that?

[00:00:20] I'm like, absolutely. You'd have to be insane to pretend that it's not.

[00:00:26] Stacy Havener: Hey, my name is Stacy Havener. I'm obsessed with startups, stories and sales. Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the toughest boys club, Wall Street. I've raised over 8 billion that has led to 30 billion in follow on assets for investment boutiques.

[00:00:44] You could say against the odds. Yeah. Understatement. I share stories of the people behind the portfolios, while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes. It's real talk here. Money. Authenticity. [00:01:00] Growth. Setbacks. Sales and marketing are all topics we discuss. Think of this as the capital raising class you wish you had in college, mixed with happy hour.

[00:01:11] Pull up a seat, grab your notebook, and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn. This is the Billion Dollar Backstory Podcast.

[00:01:23] It's what makes us different that makes us special. Today's conversation is a journey, a physical journey across borders, and a career evolution across borders too. We're going from Paris to LA to Boston. We're going from music to academia to investing. It's the cross collaboration within our own backstories that creates something unique.

[00:01:50] That can't be replicated. Jonathan earned his PhD in economics and taught at Boston University and MIT [00:02:00] before joining the renowned family office of the Ziff brothers. His family office investing roots led him to the 150 billion global investment management firm, Research Affiliates, until he decided it was time to make the leap from managing funds to managing wealth.

[00:02:21] Jonathan's story reminds us that most things and most people are a blend of art and science. Let's dive in. Meet my friend, Jonathan. Jonathan, thank you so much for being here. This is One of my favorite setups when there's someone I've met on LinkedIn, I feel like I know them, but we haven't actually had a conversation and all my podcast friends get to listen in and be a fly on the wall.

[00:02:49] So this is super fun. Thank you for being with us.

[00:02:51] Jonathan Treussard: I'm so excited.

[00:02:53] Stacy Havener: Okay. So we are going to start with my favorite thing, which is your backstory. And I have [00:03:00] little tidbits of it. Um, but I want you to start as far back as sense with the request that you, um, tell us about music.

[00:03:13] Jonathan Treussard: Yes. First of all, do you want to, do you want to kind of share your expectation of me before you logged in?

[00:03:19] Stacy Havener: Well, I thought you were going to have a really thick French accent.

[00:03:22] Jonathan Treussard: Well, there you go.

[00:03:24] Stacy Havener: I'm already on my toes because nothing has been what I thought so far. So, and I was like, we have to turn the cameras on because I'm, I'm learning about you and I want that to be like real and fresh with all the listeners.

[00:03:36] Well,

[00:03:36] Jonathan Treussard: I love that. That's awesome. So yeah, I should have a thick French accent and I don't. Um, so I, I was, I was born, uh, right outside of Paris. Um, and I grew up. As a little French kid, you know, I mean, 100 percent French, uh, people are like, your parents were American, right? I'm like, nope. But, uh, I, I wanted to be a musician.

[00:03:57] I always thought that's what I would do [00:04:00] professionally. And so part of the story is, um, As I was going through high school, I, I really, honestly wanted to be a professional musician. My mother had this insane notion that I should get a job, uh, which would require some degree of education, and she wanted me to go to musicology school for, for university, so that, you know, should I not be paying the bills with, with music, I could actually be like a high school music teacher or something, which sounds great.

[00:04:31] For Pete, for others, it just wasn't what I wanted and so basically I, uh, it's not basically, the reality is I bought, I saved up a bunch of allowance money, I sold a bunch of guitars and things I had, uh, and I bought a plane ticket to LA when I was 17 behind my parents back.

[00:04:50] Stacy Havener: No.

[00:04:51] Jonathan Treussard: Yeah. So I, uh, and my parents were divorced.

[00:04:55] I asked them to have dinner together, which obviously hadn't happened in a number of [00:05:00] years. And we were at this Chinese restaurant, uh, on the outskirts of Paris. And I told them I'm getting on a plane to LA in two weeks. You know, it was a hard conversation, but it's led to everything else after that. And look, people talk about.

[00:05:15] It turns out I'm a pretty risk aware kind of guy and they're like, that seems kind of nuts, but I just learned how important it was to sometimes just kind of go for it. You know,

[00:05:25] I want

[00:05:26] Jonathan Treussard: to tell you that when I got on that plane, I had one wish and one wish only it was for the plane to turn around. It was just so scary, but it didn't.

[00:05:35] And I'll be forever grateful. But the long, I mean, the point about the accent is I did move to LA to. California, I was already 17 years old, which, by the way, I know French people who moved to the U. S. young and they're still very French, um, you know, 40 years later, but that was the beginning of it. I will say this before I tell you the rest of the story, with every year that goes by, [00:06:00] and I think kind of working through making peace with where I come from and I'm reclaiming.

[00:06:05] Whatever, my heritage, I guess, is the best way to

[00:06:07] Stacy Havener: put it. Ooh! Ooh, I want to talk more about that, too.

[00:06:10] Jonathan Treussard: Yeah, and it's been a journey to become more authentic about, and also accepting of the fact that you can be like a bunch of different things. You don't have to be one thing.

[00:06:20] Stacy Havener: That's right.

[00:06:20] Jonathan Treussard: And my kids are about that.

[00:06:23] 13 years old twin girls. I've only ever spoken French to them. I never thought that was going to be the thing I would do, but it became like they were born and it was obvious. So anyway, um, got to LA. I really had no plan. I thought I was going to be a musician. I had no even concept of, of what the next step would be.

[00:06:41] Uh, and I stayed at a hostel in Hollywood, which really meant I was a Hollywood runaway, except I got there by plane, not by bus from Kansas. Um. And it was eight guys to a room, bunks, um, which was not a luxury experience. [00:07:00] And the kid with whom I shared the bunk, um, he had like three years on me. He was like 20, which felt like he had like massive life experience, right?

[00:07:10] This

[00:07:11] Jonathan Treussard: kid from Oakland and he said, look, if you want to see You may want to get papers, which literally I hadn't gotten that far. And he said, the, the best thing you can do is go to Santa Monica college and be a student and get a student visa. And so I started going to community college, honestly, just so I could stay.

[00:07:31] And it turned out I was really good at school and I, and I liked it. I transferred to UCLA and it turned out I was. really, really good at school. I also happened to be that I got, I had this mentor, Earl Thompson, who, uh, when I tell you spent, you know, some version of six hours a day with me, and it was usually like after dark, like 8 p.

[00:07:50] m. on teaching me economics. And I just loved every part of it. I mean, it was just incredible. Uh, and so I graduated from UCLA summa cum laude in economics. I wanted [00:08:00] to be a professor. Actually, if I Cut through the surface on that. I didn't want to be a professor. I wanted to be Earl. I just, I idolized him.

[00:08:07] Um, and so I, I applied to UCLA for grad school. I got in with no money. And literally I, I tell this story to people and they don't believe it. The same kid who told me to go to Santa Monica college for a student visa said, and it may have been two in the morning and a bit, it might've been in a slightly drunken haze.

[00:08:27] And he said to me, you should apply to BU, to Boston University. It's a private, it's a private school. I'm sure they have money. That was like the depth of the analysis.

[00:08:38] Stacy Havener: Okay.

[00:08:39] Jonathan Treussard: And I did. And I got a full presidential fellowship, which meant I got to get my doctorate and get paid for it, which was amazing. By the time I got to Boston, I really was And by the way, I didn't love the idea of moving out of California.

[00:08:55] I love California. No,

[00:08:56] Stacy Havener: well, not yet to the northeast. Hi, welcome

[00:08:59] Jonathan Treussard: to,

[00:08:59] Stacy Havener: welcome [00:09:00] to snow and cold.

[00:09:01] Jonathan Treussard: But, uh, but a couple of good things came out of it. Uh, quite a few actually. Um, one is, uh, I thought I was, I was going to be a, a micro economist. I love kind of the theory of making decisions under uncertainty. That was kind of cool to me.

[00:09:14] And there was a bunch of math involved, but I, I met. A guy in the business school who became kind of my second mentor, it's Feebody. And he said to me, while everything you like about Economics, this whole like decision under uncertainty thing in the real world, we call it investing. How about you do that?

[00:09:29] So that's right. And so I, I became an option theorist. You know, I learned a huge amount of what I know from people like Bob Merton, who gave me my first job when I was still in grad school. And I happened to meet my wife, who is Tzvi's daughter. So this is very old world, you know, we, we used to hang out around the house working on papers together.

[00:09:51] And she lived in New York at the time, and she was like, why is it that every time I come home, there is this insane French kid in our house? [00:10:00] Um, but, but that worked out. Um. So that's kind of the, that's the personal.

[00:10:05] Stacy Havener: Oh my gosh, I have questions. Okay, I have I have so many questions. Okay. Well first we kind of have to give a high five to the bunkmate

[00:10:13] Jonathan Treussard: I mean not even a question

[00:10:14] Stacy Havener: I mean, I mean literally like was some sort of guardian angel on your shoulder because whether or not he was sober He had some great advice.

[00:10:25] So but I want to go back to I mean, we could take the entire episode on your backstory, I have that many questions, but I will, I'll just try to pick like my top. So you go, you come to LA with this dream to be a musician, totally tracking, again, the bunkmate says you need papers. You go to school. What? Why?

[00:10:48] Did you take an economics class or like how did that happen? Because I would have thought you would have studied music since that's what you loved. But so how did you end up even finding economics?

[00:10:58] Jonathan Treussard: That's a fabulous [00:11:00] question because one of the things, and by the way, it's incredibly relevant to the dichotomy between my French background and the reality that I've been living in.

[00:11:06] And honestly, I, At the risk of sounding, I find this unhelpful given where we are relative to political cycles, so on and so forth. But, but America has given me opportunities that I would have never been able to get anywhere else. And, and part of it, honestly, is I showed up at Santa Monica College and had it been like a French, University, but would have been like tracked, right?

[00:11:28] And like in my, but in, in, in the U S of course, you're literally my first, whatever semester, whatever it was, semester quarters, I can't remember what the system was, but like my first term I took economics, political science and opera singing. You know what I mean? It was just like this insane, you know what I mean?

[00:11:45] Stacy Havener: So good. Yeah.

[00:11:46] Jonathan Treussard: Yeah. You know, and by the way, I love all of it and I'm, but I look, I'm drawn to ideas. I'm drawn to thinking about kind of understanding and part of it is coming from a place of utter confusion.

[00:11:59] Yeah.

[00:11:59] Jonathan Treussard: One [00:12:00] of the things that, I mean, I, again, I told you about Earl who literally changed my life.

[00:12:04] Like. Others have as well, but I would, I would go to, but by the time I got to UCLA, I took a class with him and he was this complete anti conformist who would show up in class wearing sunglasses and cowboy boots. This is an older guy who was like true kind of old LA his, his parents have been, uh, I guess, wildcat, you know, uh,

[00:12:26] oil people

[00:12:27] Jonathan Treussard: and.

[00:12:28] He would talk about things and I was just committed to understanding the stuff. And I would keep raising my hand. I was always in the first row as a good student, whatever. And literally you could hear the size behind me.

[00:12:39] Stacy Havener: Oh, I bet. I've been there. I I'm a front row. I'm a front row student too.

[00:12:43] Jonathan Treussard: And at some point Earl said, literally, I guess, hearing the reaction from my classmates, he said half of the time, I don't know what this kid is asking.

[00:12:53] But I love that he's asking it.

[00:12:54] Stacy Havener: Oh, that's so great. And

[00:12:56] Jonathan Treussard: so, so that, I think that's the pivot. The pivot is I just fell in [00:13:00] love.

[00:13:00] Stacy Havener: With, yeah, you fell in love. And it's so true that a good teacher in anything can make whatever that subject is a passion. Like their passion is contagious. And, and by the way, I also find it very interesting.

[00:13:16] And I'm sure there are studies. And since you have a PhD, you probably tell me about them or direct me to them so I can read more, but I find it very interesting that so many investment people, which you would think would be left brain logicians and very quantitative. So many talented investors actually really have a right brain, creative musical.

[00:13:43] I mean, you are not the first person to say like music was your passion and I'm sure there is a reason. Like, I'm sure there's. Studies behind that

[00:13:52] Jonathan Treussard: for sure. I know There, I, so there, there is data. I don't think it's, um, anecdotal though. I've heard, you know, stories. [00:14:00] There's a cute story about it and, and I'm gonna completely butcher it to get ready.

[00:14:03] Yeah. . But, but you

[00:14:04] Jonathan Treussard: know, this is in the court of Denmark or whatever in the olden days. And one of the great. Astronomers is invited to come to the palace once a week or whatever to teach the king again I'm making up every part of the details and Everybody's like holy smokes. That King is really into astronomy Only to find out that I think it was Copernicus or something only to find out that Copernicus was teaching the king how to play Music

[00:14:30] Stacy Havener: Wow.

[00:14:31] Yeah, I get it. I mean, it's it's fascinating. Okay, so now By the way, if I hear any sort of accent, do you want to know what it is?

[00:14:41] Jonathan Treussard: Tell me.

[00:14:42] Stacy Havener: Boston.

[00:14:43] Jonathan Treussard: Yeah, I believe it.

[00:14:44] Stacy Havener: Yeah. And

[00:14:45] Jonathan Treussard: my, by the way, my wife who's, who's from Boston is like, can you please not

[00:14:49] Stacy Havener: have that accent? No, no. Just

[00:14:51] Jonathan Treussard: like, like, you know, it's mine.

[00:14:54] You know what I mean?

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[00:15:34] We'll even help you step up your LinkedIn game and give your profile a makeover. You want to grow your biz, we've got your back. Learn more about The Collective, the curriculum, and the amazing coaches who will help you on your journey. Visit havenercapital. com slash collective. High five! Hope to see you in a coaching session soon.[00:16:00]

[00:16:00] Um, okay. So now you, so you get your PhD, like kind of bring it forward. And I want to pause when we get to the Ziff brothers part. Cause I think that's really interesting. So you get your, so you've decided like investing economics. What happened?

[00:16:17] Jonathan Treussard: Option theory, whatever.

[00:16:18] Stacy Havener: Option theory. Yes.

[00:16:20] Jonathan Treussard: Yeah. Uh, and so I, I become this kind of, um, and I think this is factually true.

[00:16:25] I kind of become this super quant type of person. I write my dissertation using like calculus that people have never even heard of. But, but honestly, part of, by the time I got to the end of getting my doctorate, I I mean, I did want to be, I, there's, and, and it is very relevant to, you know, the way I've, I've built my life now.

[00:16:43] That I really did want to be a professor. There is a huge part of me that's committed to communicating and to teaching and all of that. Which, by the way, I think is, is, uh, creative. I write a huge amount, and if you've read any of my writing, I write in a very personal way. And I view it as an [00:17:00] exercise in, in, in creative writing.

[00:17:01] I don't view it as an exercise in, in kind of explaining the world to people.

[00:17:04] Stacy Havener: Right.

[00:17:05] Jonathan Treussard: But the point is, by the time I got to the end of it, again, I wanted to be a professor, but I really wanted to be my heroes. I wanted to be Earl. I wanted to be Tzvi. And the reality is the academic game has changed radically since the 60s and the 70s.

[00:17:18] And, and that environment wasn't super, great for me. Turns out culture fits really important. And I had this incredible fortune that Ziff Brothers Investments was looking to beef up, if you will. Uh, and we're, this is like the end of 2007. They wanted to beef up their risk management because obviously they had a sense that bad things were on the horizon.

[00:17:40] You know, at the time, um, there was this very organized job market for new PhDs. It was kind of like, literally like a cattle. Type of thing where you would fly to one location and you would interview for five days and then like the market would clear

[00:17:56] Stacy Havener: It's like the phd. It's like the it's the phd [00:18:00] combine.

[00:18:00] It's like the nfl combine for phds.

[00:18:02] Jonathan Treussard: Sure. Um Now you've just identified that one of the things that I don't have is knowledge of sports. Um But that sounds great. Um So I flew to New Orleans. I, I interviewed with a guy who would become my first boss and forever mentor, Ali Crawford, who was building the risk management team for the Ziff family.

[00:18:24] And I was one of three newly minted PhDs who joined, uh, ZBI in the kind of spring into summer of 08. And it was amazing. I mean, if you know anything about the Ziff family, they're incredible people. They have an incredible history as well, but they really are They're very special people and they understand with great privilege comes great responsibility type of thing.

[00:18:48] But I joined this insanely sophisticated family office. I mean, we had every strategy known to man and in a capacity where unlike everybody else that's, you know, in the hedge fund world, very [00:19:00] siloed. If you're going to do risk management and investment strategy, you have to know everything. And so we cut across.

[00:19:07] literally every strategy, global asset class, you name it, internal managers, external managers, um, you know, because of my background in, in options, I mean, a couple of things were just, you know, I show up, I I'll remember it forever. It's June 15, 2008. Um, and Alex says a very kind thing that a nice manager would say.

[00:19:29] He says, you know, the first couple of weeks, just get used to the phone and the computer and where the cafeteria is, you know, type of thing. And literally within less than two hours of saying that he's like, okay, so we're doing a bespoke. Option to hedge some of the risks that we're seeing on the horizon and I need you to code it.

[00:19:47] I need you to talk to our counterparty and I need to make sure that we understand the marks. And I was like, that sounds great. What, what did you just say? Um, you know, And, and I was just, [00:20:00] you know, that was just the beginning. So I lived through the financial crisis with as if. Family, you know, as if brothers investments and, and just great colleagues.

[00:20:08] And I don't want to completely do the whole like back and forth and back again. I left ZBI 10 years ago in 2014. That's when I moved back to California. I was just in New York two weeks ago, three weeks ago, maybe. And I hosted a 10 year reunion drinks with some of my former colleagues. And it was one of the most, honestly, one of the most rewarding and moving and magical things that I've done in a long time, because these are people that you knew when, and they knew you when you were a baby and all of that type of thing.

[00:20:41] And by the way, we all got together and like, Good news, everybody kind of looked the same, so I guess we, we're aging well, uh, but we also like didn't miss a beat, you know what I mean? Like we all, like we all, we all kind of look the same on the inside, you know what I mean? Yeah. So that was super fun.

[00:20:56] Stacy Havener: What a cool thing to do.

[00:20:59] [00:21:00] And by the way, total sidebar, this idea. So how many people were there? For the 10, 11, Yeah. So this whole idea of like getting together like a micro event type of thing, something small and intimate and special with special people. I feel this is like having a moment and as a trend. And I'm even seeing people doing dinners like that.

[00:21:29] with their network of people that don't know each other.

[00:21:32] Yeah.

[00:21:33] Stacy Havener: And it's like, we're sort of coming back to that idea of like, really special interactions, like things that can't be done at scale, like the magic can't be replicated at scale. And so I just love that.

[00:21:49] Jonathan Treussard: I mean, I completely agree. I mean, I think we're starved.

[00:21:52] for actual connections. I, I really believe that. I think that community is true wealth. And by the way, I'm, I'm experiencing it. I'm, [00:22:00] I'm learning it. You know, I mean, my, my wife is, is massively, uh, tapped into, you know, the value of community and all that. I'm just learning it. And honestly, I'm part of it too, is.

[00:22:10] As an immigrant, I certainly always felt like a little stranger danger, and now I've, I've completely let it go. I mean, my kids are like, are you out doing some mayoring today? You know, I'm like walking down the street being like, hello, friend! Um, and, bye. That's so

[00:22:25] Stacy Havener: not, that's a very non French stereotype, right?

[00:22:29] Well, that's it. So even culturally.

[00:22:31] Jonathan Treussard: But, but I think that's right. And so we need the connection. I think that's where the magic happens. I mean, magic happens wherever you, you make it happen. I mean, you and I met on LinkedIn and I feel like you're a friend, but you have to be just, and maybe it's the California in me and it's too new age, but it like let go of the transactional stuff.

[00:22:53] You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, I'm doing like this, like. Paperless post or whatever to invite my [00:23:00] colleagues. And there's like, would you like to put in like a question or whatever in the invitation? And I'm like, sure. And I'm like, what's the weirdest thing you've done in the last 10 years? Right.

[00:23:08] Stacy Havener: Ooh, yeah.

[00:23:09] Jonathan Treussard: And everybody was like, ha, ha, that was fun. And then we went around the group and we learned like cool things about each other. I

[00:23:16] Stacy Havener: love that.

[00:23:17] Jonathan Treussard: I mean, the craziest thing, by the way, it was, and this, my friend, Jonathan. Really took the price of the evening when he was like, well, in the middle of COVID, my wife had staples in her skull for whatever reason,

[00:23:29] and

[00:23:29] Jonathan Treussard: I had to like watch a YouTube video and take the staples out

[00:23:33] Stacy Havener: and I was like, what, you know,

[00:23:38] Jonathan Treussard: and everybody was like, that's it.

[00:23:39] You win.

[00:23:39] Stacy Havener: Yeah. You win. I mean, there's always one person that's going to just do, just drop the mic on it. But I think. The connection piece is really big and I want to go because now I love how it's just like popcorning back to the backstory because now you're a founder. I am. And so I want to talk about that because the founder [00:24:00] life can be a little bit lonely.

[00:24:01] Jonathan Treussard: Absolutely. I mean, not even a question. So again, to really quickly fast forward.

[00:24:06] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:24:06] Jonathan Treussard: I, I left ZBI in 2014. I, I did want to come back to California. Perhaps against the wisdom of my wife and it's turned out to be a fabulous 10 years. I became a partner and head of product at Research Affiliates, which really allowed me to learn the business side of things.

[00:24:23] I mean, I ran, I basically ran the business with, with my CEO Katie Sherrod for a number of years across every geography, including being in charge of the European office on and so forth. And part of. Why today, in addition to the fact that, look, it's my, and I've, and I've told you by my, my education, I've told you about my experience, and I still think like, wanting to manage people's money does not give you the right to do it like you have, like, you know, and it's just like, yeah, I'd like to manage your money.

[00:24:51] I had no kidding. Uh, and so for me it was a long journey to being, to being ready, to being like, no, I'm, I'm, [00:25:00] you know, like I, this is legitimate. thing for me to pursue, but, but Katie retired in 2021, uh, the intersection of her departure and kind of COVID era, you know, metaphysical, like the meaning of the world, meaning of life type of stuff.

[00:25:17] I decided to try and go back to the family office world for a minute that didn't take. And so I launched Roussard Capital Management about a year and a half ago. And what you just said is, is absolutely right. When people are like. How's it going? I'm like, I love the work.

[00:25:33] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:25:33] Jonathan Treussard: I love building a firm and it can be very lonely.

[00:25:36] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:25:37] Jonathan Treussard: And all three things can be true at the same time and it's okay. You know, um, which is why again, I'm at the intersection of, of truly believing that it makes for a better life and that I think it's good for my, my mental health. I'm massively leaning into friendships and community and, and all of that because [00:26:00] you're only as alone as you.

[00:26:02] Choose to be. If you have the opportunity to be proactive, I mean, I went to one of these, you were talking about more like these like hangouts with strangers type of things.

[00:26:11] Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:12] Jonathan Treussard: And one of my, one of my good friends is kind of a master kind of network person. And so he hosts these things and he really like orchestrates them.

[00:26:21] And it's like rule number one, don't ask people what they do. You know what I mean? Which is like, yeah, I'm like, yeah. But one of the things, like, so one of the questions that was a fallback was someone asked me, what are three skills that you think every human should have? And you know, people have all sorts of whatever it's also, it's like a, like a function of where your head is.

[00:26:43] And I said to me, it's knowing to be alone because you're going to be alone to recognizing that's not an ideal state and three figuring out what to do about it. And I feel like I've been all these things I've been alone. I mean, again, like when you're. Kid in LA with nobody. You're pretty alone. [00:27:00] And I, anyway, blah, blah, blah.

[00:27:03] Stacy Havener: I, I, no, no, not blah, blah, blah, because, so listen, Nothing makes sense when you're in it, like looking forward, obviously, because you don't know where you're going. But certainly as you pause and reflect back, the dots as disparate as they are, make a ton of sense. Like you can see how the pattern all plays out.

[00:27:24] And so the fact that you're sitting here now with a family office, you know, vibe of your own. And I want to talk about how kind of all of these, these worlds and disciplines and skill sets combined, but that's, what's true for you. Those three skills that you mentioned obviously are hitting at a level for you very Profoundly right now as a founder and I can relate I will share when I I joined a group called strategic coach six or seven years ago and When we the very first session so so strategic coaches for entrepreneurs across all industries Okay.

[00:27:59] So you're sitting in a [00:28:00] room of founders, various stages of their businesses, but successful because you have to have some levels to get in, whatever. And I remember they asked a question. So the first thing they were teaching us is about time management. It was like, so what do you do on a free day? Like, what do you do in your spare time?

[00:28:20] And, and they wanted people to share sort of like, And it was crickets. It was just crickets. Like, it was like, you can't, it's not reading business books. It can't be business related. Like what do you, and it was the first time, like when I saw the panic stricken faces of the other founders in the room, I thought, Oh, these are my people.

[00:28:45] And there's something to that. Like being. Finding the people that sort of are, are aligned. Yes. But also where you are

[00:28:55] Jonathan Treussard: totally

[00:28:56] Stacy Havener: and where you are right now is a different journey

[00:28:59] Jonathan Treussard: completely. [00:29:00] And, and again, it's, I mean, yeah, you know, I've, I've, I just told you I've been part. Of groups that I think were kind of magical.

[00:29:09] They had magic when they're thinking, you know, the Zip experience, the research affiliates, all of that. And, and this is different and it's awesome. And I, I repeat, I tend to be a very kind of risk aware person, but I think discomfort, by the way, if you're asking me like, like, I mean, I have a million answers to the question, but people are like, like what's investing about, you know, and I'm like, it's about sitting with discomfort.

[00:29:36] Stacy Havener: Yes,

[00:29:37] Jonathan Treussard: it's not complicated. It's sitting with discomfort. And so, you know, and, and I take that in every, like, I think discomfort is a okay. It's part of life. It's part of what I do professionally. But the point is like, is there something uncomfortable about being a founder and starting a thing from the ground up and all that?

[00:29:55] I'm like, absolutely. Like, you'd have to be insane to pretend that it's not.

[00:29:59] Stacy Havener: I [00:30:00] love that. And being risk aware and risk averse. thing.

[00:30:04] Jonathan Treussard: Absolutely.

[00:30:05] Stacy Havener: So, and I want you to talk a little bit about that. Like I want to go into differentiators because I think, look, it's very difficult to differentiate In general, no matter what industry you're in, certainly in the investment world and even maybe more so in the wealth space.

[00:30:23] I mean, I think it's really difficult for a wealth management firm to tap into what makes them different. And so I'm curious when you think about that, like, how do you frame your differentiators?

[00:30:39] Jonathan Treussard: Look at the, at the most pedestrian of levels, right? I mean, just like If you want it to be more transactional, right?

[00:30:47] I would say, look, I've just told you about my experience. I told you about my knowledge. You will, you will find it difficult to find somebody who has this degree of experience and knowledge in a wealth management seat. [00:31:00] And I think that's helpful. I just, I really do think it's helpful, but that's pedestrian.

[00:31:04] That's just kind of like, let me tell you about my resume, which great. You know, awesome. I'm happy for you. The second layer of that. Is, uh, and I think there is an investment version of it and there is a, there is an incentive version of it. The investment version of it is, it is my, and, and part of it is having seen it through the struggles of, of what it means to have like huge wealth to manage and, and all of that.

[00:31:28] And I think it comes down to three things, right? It's like understanding the mechanics of investing because like there is a lot of mechanics, right? I mean, it's just like, and I'm telling you, like. I don't think you get it from a book, but getting it from a book is probably a pretty decent place to start, but you have to get it from somewhere.

[00:31:42] Understanding the psychology of investing. And, and again, this is where I just told you about, I, it is my sincere belief that like investing is about discomfort. I think that managing money is as much about kind of like the risk return thing that like people like to talk about as it is managing regret.

[00:31:59] If you're [00:32:00] lucky, you're always going to regret something, right? If you made a good decision, you'll regret not having. And and if you make a decision that you thought was a good one and it and it goes sideways, which it does, then you'll regret doing that in the first place. So I think it's all about managing regret.

[00:32:16] And by the way, if you're lucky, you calibrate it correctly. I mean, you know, it's like, you're like, I wish I had bought just a little more, you know, that's pretty cool. Yeah. And the last so you know, it's mechanics, psychology and psychology is huge. And it gets Thanks. And I do think it gets crystallized with wealth, but it's, the stakes are high, the expectations that you're going to do smart things are high.

[00:32:38] So all of a sudden it's, I say to people, your, your brain on money is a mess, uh, you know, and it's true. And the last thing is like getting, and again, this is the more kind of metaphysical thing, but it really has profound investment implications is like figuring out your why, you know, like if you're like, if you're.

[00:32:58] I mean, and I say this [00:33:00] because we all have bad days in the market and all of that. And it's all of a sudden you realize that like, Hey, interest rates just backed up 30 basis points. And like, maybe that, that was an ouchie for your portfolio or whatever. And I'm like, how is that going to affect your kids in adulthood?

[00:33:18] Because if it doesn't, we get to live to fight another day.

[00:33:22] Yeah.

[00:33:22] Jonathan Treussard: So that's part of it, um, is having an understanding of that, which isn't like just It's not brilliance. It's not even wisdom. It's just like being reflective on on having seen it a whole bunch of different ways in a whole bunch of different times.

[00:33:37] And then the last thing, and again, this is where I have a little bit more one of the term that we had a research affiliates, which I think is brilliant, is having a little bit more against energy, you know, to be a little bit more, um, Standing against something. I understand the incentives of asset management.

[00:33:52] I was on the asset management set of things. And so I can tell you what's going on. And I understand it that people are out to make a buck. And by the way, [00:34:00] capitalism is the only force we have to row this thing forward. But like it can it can get Spicy and and it's sometimes it's not in your best interest.

[00:34:08] I mean, you know, I've been talking about You know what? I call the etf revolution 2. 0 Which is the fact that now the gates have have opened on all sorts of things kind of happening in in etf land Like it was kind of hard to get burnt with etfs when it was kind of like getting exposure to the smp Like

[00:34:26] yeah,

[00:34:27] Jonathan Treussard: but now it's the new eldorado where all sorts of things are going into etfs and it's helpful to know I mean and by the way, i'm like It's helpful to know one, why it's happening, because it's really hard to make money in a low margin core and bore fun type of deal.

[00:34:44] Like, are you really going to compete with black rock to launch the next equity index fund? Like, are you an insane person? And so people are doing kind of. More creative things, but some of them are probably going to be good for investors and some of them are probably going to result in tears. You know, [00:35:00] I'm for the life of me, things like covered call ETFs have been just massive money aggregators.

[00:35:07] I mean, we're talking tens of billions of dollars over the course of just a couple of years. There are people use cute words to explain it like boomer candy or whatever, but I'm like, ultimately, I've

[00:35:19] Stacy Havener: not heard that. Yeah, that's, I think,

[00:35:21] Jonathan Treussard: I think Bloomberg came up with that. And it's right. You know, it's like, why it's boomer candy.

[00:35:27] Like, hey, do you want income? Yes. And are you not ready to say goodbye to equities also? Yes, boy, do I have a product for you? So, and by the way, I'm not saying I want to be clear. Like if you're like, if you go through the explainer, if you go through the PSA and you're like, all right, let me explain to you what's going on here.

[00:35:45] We're going to buy stocks. We're going to sell calls. Which means you're going to be capping your upside. You're going to be keeping all the downside. That's yours. Uh, and, and, and, and, and in return for your trouble, you'll get a little bit of income, but just so you know, it's [00:36:00] going to be very highly taxed.

[00:36:02] Right? And people are like, I get it. That's awesome. You know, sign me up. Then go for it, man. Um, but you know, I mean, so, so I, so I understand this stuff that I understand the, the engineering. I also understand the why behind, you know, new products and whatever. Look, I, I, it's a business. Asset management is a business wealth management is a business.

[00:36:29] And I'd like to think we do it for the benefit of the investing public of our clients, but you have to understand this stuff. Um, I, I say, look, my natural constituent is someone who's made money. gone to the obvious shop, you know, one of the big private banks or whatever, and wakes up three to five years down the line.

[00:36:51] And this is again, remember someone who's made money, which presumably means like they they were in charge of their destiny for some period of time. And they feel disintermediated from their [00:37:00] wealth. And like, they're looking at this loving, like, I don't know what any of this does. I don't know what any of this is, right.

[00:37:05] And I say to people, look, what I'm going to do for you is help you regain understanding, control and agency. over your own wealth. And again, the word agency is really important to me. Like I know it's my job to manage this stuff, but I'd like for you to be like in the driver's seat with me, but importantly.

[00:37:19] You and I know this, and anybody who's stopped and thought about it knows this to be true. Obfuscation can be a strategy where you just create complexity just because like all of a sudden you're like,

[00:37:31] Oh,

[00:37:32] Jonathan Treussard: you know, and so, and so I'm, that's, so long way around the block to say, if you gave me 30 seconds and I took 10 minutes to answer my differentiator, that would be it.

[00:37:42] Stacy Havener: Well, okay, so I'm here for it, but here's the thing. There's a lot of magic in there and the last piece especially I think Another thread that's been on multiple podcasts of ours. Is [00:38:00] that? complexity Helps our industry make more money Because they if if it's complicated we can charge more Um, if it's complicated It also makes us sound really smart And so there's all this stuff technical term Wrapped up in the complexity bias that I think our industry's figured out maybe more so than most industries how to harness Not you know in In a great way for the asset management firms, and, but not in a great way for the clients of these firms.

[00:38:36] So the simplicity thing is really big. I'm curious, have you found a pattern in the types of clients that come to you? Like, so for example, I mean, I guess if we, if we think about our backstories and, and how, who we are and why we do what we do is as important or more important than what we do and how.

[00:38:59] Like, [00:39:00] so you could say, um, professors or, or people that worked in the asset management industry, or I guess even musicians, but like, is there, is there a type of client that gravitates towards you?

[00:39:13] Jonathan Treussard: Yeah. I mean, so.

[00:39:15] Stacy Havener: And that takes time to, to, that pattern takes time by the way, so it might not be there yet.

[00:39:19] Jonathan Treussard: For sure. I think part of it. So the answer is yes.

[00:39:22] Stacy Havener: Okay.

[00:39:23] Jonathan Treussard: And I'm just going to elevate it just marginally because again, then you otherwise get into like personalities and whatever.

[00:39:29] Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:29] Jonathan Treussard: But I think number one is, I mean, I talk to everybody the way I'm talking to you. And so a huge amount of it is just like people who are like, I'm not going to give you the, the dear sir, madam thing.

[00:39:41] You know, I'm not gonna, you know what I mean? And so a lot of it is like, people would be like, well, I won't respect. And I'm like, no, what you're going to get is my. My honesty, you're going to get my authenticity. You're going to get, but I'm not going to, you know, I guess I'll give you a slightly different version of that, which is.

[00:39:58] I think the big, you know, [00:40:00] the quote unquote, what I call the wealth management industrial complex, they have different personalities. I say to some of them, you're going there because there's a lot of mahogany. That's it.

[00:40:09] Stacy Havener: Oh yeah. Fancy brochures and yeah. Uh huh.

[00:40:12] Jonathan Treussard: You know, and then there are other places that really are like more of the velvet road people.

[00:40:17] You know, Hey, I'm going to put you in the stuff that, that the real people get in come behind, you know, so all of that and, and my people don't need the mahogany, they understand that. And again, by the way, I think it's very, I, I, I don't want to be dogmatic about anything because dogma is bad news.

[00:40:35] Complexity bias is real and, and, and all about creating prisons. Ultimately, and I don't care for the simplicity nihilists either who are like, there's nothing you can do. Just buy and hold, close your eyes.

[00:40:51] Yeah. I

[00:40:51] Jonathan Treussard: get it. And by the way, I understand it. I, by the way, I think there's more truth in that than not, but it can be exaggerated.

[00:40:57] I think it's also kind of a business [00:41:00] strategy, you know, in a world where everybody tells you to do complicated things, I'm going to tell you to do nothing and close your eyes,

[00:41:05] you know? And so.

[00:41:06] Jonathan Treussard: But look at this, the S& P 500 only ever goes up, you know, and you're like, you just use the present tense to describe the past.

[00:41:14] Are you insane? You know, all of that stuff. So, so I, my people are people that, my people are people that want to kind of have an honest conversation.

[00:41:22] Stacy Havener: So, you know, here's your homework. You didn't know you were going to get homework by coming on the podcast, did you? Okay. I expect homework

[00:41:30] Jonathan Treussard: at all times.

[00:41:31] Stacy Havener: At all times.

[00:41:32] I'm always looking for homework myself. Okay, so I love this analogy. Or, or, it's not even an analogy, just framework I guess. About, there's the mahogany people, there's the velvet rope people. And your homework is to figure out what is the, what is the adjective or noun or whatever that is. Is to describe you and your clients, because that's a real, it's a very real phenomenon in wealth management.[00:42:00]

[00:42:00] It's a really cool way to talk about it that I haven't heard people do. So it's different and it's just, what is that? So it's, it's like, you know, I don't know the people who like the sidewalk people, the people who are walking down like, you know, main street or whatever, like, you know, whatever it is, whatever that phrase is.

[00:42:20] That's your homework. Love it. Okay. Okay. I love this. This is awesome. I want to talk a little bit about, um, so how you started your firm. Tell me again. What year?

[00:42:31] Jonathan Treussard: 2023, a year and a half ago.

[00:42:33] Stacy Havener: So a year and a half. So here you are, you're a year and a half in, what advice would you give to other founders, be it asset management or wealth management in our space from your year and a half?

[00:42:47] Jonathan Treussard: I mean, I think it goes back to the thing you were talking about. Like, what would you do on your day off? The part of it is, or your downtime. Yeah. Because I, I, if you're anything like me, and I'm assuming a lot of people, [00:43:00] you're very driven to outcomes, to success, to progress, whatever. There's going to be downtime.

[00:43:08] There's, and you're not going to choose it, by the way.

[00:43:10] Yeah.

[00:43:10] Jonathan Treussard: There's going to be the meetings that fall through, there's going to be whatever, all these things, all these moments when you find yourself being like. And it's, it goes back to being alone. It goes back to this, this empty space to know what you do that you think maybe can be value creating for the long run, but being able to pivot real hard to that when it happens.

[00:43:33] Again, I love to write when I don't know what to do. I'll write more like just period. Um, and I don't ever think that's a bad idea. It like, uh, I just, it, would it be better to go meet yet another prospect? Maybe. But if that's not on the menu, like forget it. I'm very happy doing the thing that, I mean, people literally said to me, you're spending a lot of time writing your newsletter on LinkedIn, whatever.

[00:43:58] You clearly you're doing it [00:44:00] for business development purposes. Right. And I'm like, yeah, I guess. But then I very quickly realized on Monday, I feel like maybe I'm doing the quote unquote thought leadership to build the business. And then if you asked me the same question on Tuesday, I kind of feel like maybe I'm running the business so I can do the writing, you

[00:44:16] Stacy Havener: know?

[00:44:17] Jonathan Treussard: So the point is like, figure out how to make this work for you. So that you're always, I mean, this is, by the way, this is not a real state to always be fulfilled, but that fulfillment to be on the menu.

[00:44:29] Stacy Havener: Yeah. So there's two things that I love. Let's talk about the writing piece because I very much resonate with this.

[00:44:35] And I think there is for most people who enjoy writing, it's, it's not so much. Because we want to communicate something to others. It's because we need to communicate something to ourselves. Like we do it to find clarity and it's therapeutic and it's so much more than like, Oh, I'm posting on LinkedIn because I want to get clients.

[00:44:58] It's certainly part of it, [00:45:00] but there's a lot more to it than love that you. You brought that up. The other thing I want to say though, going back to our earlier conversation about those free days and sort of the downtime that you don't choose, and it's so important to choose it. This is like, again, having been in, in coach for six years and, and this is the first thing they teach you.

[00:45:22] The burnout is for most of us who are driven, who are founders, it's smoldering burnout.

[00:45:29] Sure.

[00:45:30] Stacy Havener: Like you don't even know it's happening. It's happening below the surface and. The best thing we can do for ourselves is to step away as hard as it is. I mean, I have had time where I'm like, I don't even know what I'm doing.

[00:45:44] I probably, that's why I started walking. Cause I'm like, I literally don't, I don't have a hobby other than reading about work. So I'll just go walk around. But like that space for our brain and our emotion and our Spirit is so critical

[00:45:59] Jonathan Treussard: and there's no [00:46:00] question. I mean, again, you're, it's your walks along the beach.

[00:46:03] It's Yeah, me, it's me going, you know, I mean, given where I live, like I can literally go trail running at the end of any given. And by the way, sometimes it doesn't have to be at the end of the day, if in the middle of the day, if you like it. Yes. Good news is I get to do what I want to do. So I think that's really important.

[00:46:17] You've given me homework, so I'm gonna ask you a couple questions in

[00:46:19] Stacy Havener: return. Oh, please, yeah. Okay.

[00:46:21] Jonathan Treussard: One is, and I just wrote a piece yesterday, which the thing about writing it, the reason I thought about it is because you said, you know, it's also about like helping you kind of figure out your own stuff. Yes.

[00:46:30] Stacy Havener: Yeah, yeah.

[00:46:30] Jonathan Treussard: Um, and I wrote about inflation and basically just, uh, I call it. So you want to beat inflation, huh? And again, because I'm a, I'm a reformed quant, I'm a recovering quant. I'm always worried about, about, I learn a lot from data, but I'm also worried about misusing it. So what do we know? We know that bonds can be, can be in bad shape if there's something that resembles financial repression.

[00:46:52] And it's not implausible that in a world where our debt to GDP ratio is 120 percent and that like, we just can't [00:47:00] deal with it. So people say financial repression is a bad thing. I'm like, Hey, we has, we had massive financial repression coming out of World War II. And I would call that a necessary evil for defeating actual evil.

[00:47:10] You know what I mean? So like I, it's a, it's a societal choice. It's not like a. Like you know an absolute and then this whole idea that stocks for the long run will beat inflation I'm like you guys are like you're looking at the data incorrectly The question is I wrote this piece because I I think those thoughts right there.

[00:47:27] They're authentic to me

[00:47:28] Yeah,

[00:47:28] Jonathan Treussard: but I always now about again kind of communicating and and and conveying thoughts in a way that are helpful I don't like to lead with negativity.

[00:47:38] Stacy Havener: Okay,

[00:47:39] Jonathan Treussard: and so much of knowledge is empowerment, but so much of knowledge is also like being like, whoa, whoa, whoa, not so fast.

[00:47:47] Right. And not so fast can quickly feel like a downer. So that's, that's, you know,

[00:47:53] Stacy Havener: and so are you worried about that?

[00:47:56] Jonathan Treussard: I do because I, I think there's a market for [00:48:00] positivity and, and that's real. I think we do have a bias towards negativity and, and kind of negativity, at least historically has been kind of like an eyeball.

[00:48:11] device, but I don't like it. I don't like that. That's true. And I'd rather we, we could have a balanced. view of the world. And like, again, how many times it's like, something terrible is going to happen. Click here, you know? I

[00:48:26] Stacy Havener: mean, that's media, that's media now.

[00:48:28] Jonathan Treussard: Right. And so I'm trying to fight those, but I'm, so I'm trying to stay true to the messages that I want to convey.

[00:48:35] It's like, what, you know, the old, whatever, um, because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you type of thing.

[00:48:42] Stacy Havener: Okay. So, but here's the thing, partly, Because of who you are and your training and not even the quant piece, but just the options theory. I mean, you are hardwired to manage risk at all times.

[00:48:58] So yes, you also [00:49:00] want to harness upside, but a lot of your skillset is in identifying risks and figuring out the best way to hedge them.

[00:49:11] Jonathan Treussard: To work with them.

[00:49:12] Stacy Havener: Yeah. To work with them. Right. I mean, that's in your DNA. So when you write, Or think I can imagine why it sometimes feels like oh, this is overly negative because you're spotting risks at all times I don't think that's a bad thing.

[00:49:26] I don't think it's like sensationalist Or like you're trying to write a cool hook. I think that's It's partly who you are. And so one of the ways that you can make that very authentic in your writing, which I know you have a very personal style to your writing, is to acknowledge it. So you know, right out of the gate, if it's so you want to be inflation hot, which sounds like it could be like a rap hook.

[00:49:51] So and to say somewhere early on, remember, this is who I am. And so I. I focus on the [00:50:00] things that could go wrong almost before I'm able to get to the things that could go right. Whatever that is, like, sort of the honesty around it so it doesn't feel like it's being sensationalist. It's just sort of being real to who you are.

[00:50:15] A lot of people will identify with that, by the way, in either highly academic spaces or in the investment space. There's a lot of people who, not focus on the negative, but look for the risks first.

[00:50:31] Jonathan Treussard: Right, and obviously a huge part of it is, perhaps the whole thing is I write for my people, but I also want to help people who are in me, right?

[00:50:39] So part of it is bridging that gap. Yes! I it's very

[00:50:44] Stacy Havener: good and you know, and actually let's pause here for a second because if people want to connect with you Normally I do this at the end But this is just so natural because we're talking about your newsletter if people want to connect with you LinkedIn you mentioned that you're active on linkedin.

[00:50:58] So that's a great place And your [00:51:00] newsletter, can they sign up for your newsletter on LinkedIn as well?

[00:51:02] Jonathan Treussard: Yeah. I mean, there's a, if you go to my profile and I, whatever they call these things, the feature tiles, you can sign up for my newsletter there, but go to my website, trussard. com, T R E U S S A R D. com.

[00:51:14] And you'll be able to sign up for the newsletter. The newsletter on my website, I write probably a couple of times a month.

[00:51:20] Stacy Havener: Great.

[00:51:21] Jonathan Treussard: And, and again, I'll talk about, I'll talk about markets. I'll talk about, I'll talk about the economy. I'll talk about. things that I think people need to understand, uh, to have more agency over their own lives.

[00:51:33] And I mean, look, I, I'm telling you, because this is one of the great rewards of it, people who aren't interested in this stuff, read it. And they're like, I kind of love it. I'm learning things I would have never learned about otherwise. And it's like so fun for me to get that.

[00:51:49] Stacy Havener: Yeah, I love that. So let's pivot to my James Lipton questions also, which you pointed out.

[00:51:59] [00:52:00] Or another person's question. Bail.

[00:52:03] Jonathan Treussard: See, I'll do, I'll do it with a French accent. .

[00:52:06] Stacy Havener: There you go. Okay, Wes. So fancy all, um, here we go. I'm gonna start with one. That might be easy, but it might not, I don't know. What book inspires you

[00:52:16] Jonathan Treussard: that I, I think that's a really hard question.

[00:52:18] Stacy Havener: It is a hard question. You're a reader

[00:52:20] Jonathan Treussard: and, and, and, and I don't want to, I don't want you to think it's, it's.

[00:52:24] planned, uh, but I did, I did think about it. And obviously it's not the, it's not the answer, but it's a, it's a real answer on the road by Jack Kerouac.

[00:52:34] Stacy Havener: Wow.

[00:52:35] Jonathan Treussard: Yeah. Look, I read it. I mean, I told you. If you believe that all of this is a, just a terrible accident, right? That I just got on this journey and it, and it just unfolded.

[00:52:45] I read on the road through high school, you know, some version of 20 times. And I would fall asleep to it on the bus coming back from high school and whatever, and I think there's something to that book, just like, get out there.

[00:52:58] Stacy Havener: That is great. [00:53:00] Never been said by the way. What type of musician did you want to be?

[00:53:03] Like, did you want to be a rock and roll person?

[00:53:05] Jonathan Treussard: So I grew up, uh, yes. And, um, there's no amount, there's no music that I don't love. I mean, I grew up playing jazz in Paris. My mentor was, was a, a gypsy jazz. musician who again rejected the fact that if you were a gypsy you had expectations that you would play Django Reinhardt music and so he was very much a bebop musician.

[00:53:27] Oh

[00:53:27] Stacy Havener: wow.

[00:53:28] Jonathan Treussard: But look when you're 15, 16, 17 and we're talking about the mid 90s like do you think that slash is kind of cool? Yeah you think that slash is kind

[00:53:35] Stacy Havener: of cool. Of course you do. Yeah.

[00:53:36] Jonathan Treussard: Yeah.

[00:53:37] Stacy Havener: Okay so good. What place inspires you?

[00:53:41] Jonathan Treussard: I love every version of a raw countryside type of thing. I mean, I grew up going to Brittany, which is a lot like Rhode Island and maybe even more Maine, you know, the coastal parts.

[00:53:54] I, I love in California, one of my favorite places is Point Reyes, the Tomales [00:54:00] Bay north of San Francisco, that really honestly looks like Scotland. So I just, I just love any version of like misty dewy countryside.

[00:54:09] Stacy Havener: Ooh. Yeah. That's one of the reasons I like Europe. I think like there's something very I mean, California is great and it's very sunny, but like there's something when it gets like cloudy and there's dark moments and there's, there's interest like that misty dewy.

[00:54:25] Jonathan Treussard: We, so we live, we live less than five minutes, 10 minutes from the ocean and most mornings, like we're sitting in a blanket of marine layer and I love it.

[00:54:35] Stacy Havener: Yeah, that's cool. I get that. All right. This next question is going to be hard for you, I think. because you wanted to be a musician, I'm going to ask you about music, which is to say that if you were going to speak in a stadium, what song are they going to play as your walkout anthem?

[00:54:54] Jonathan Treussard: Oh, um, yeah, that's obviously a hard question because I'll, [00:55:00] I'll tell, I'll give you two answers. Are you okay with two answers?

[00:55:02] Stacy Havener: Yeah, of course. Yeah.

[00:55:03] Jonathan Treussard: Um, my father passed away six years ago. And, um, thank you. He loved. Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid by Bob Dylan.

[00:55:17] And

[00:55:18] Jonathan Treussard: at his memorial, I requested that we play Billy 4, which is one of the songs on that record.

[00:55:25] I encourage anybody to go listen to it. It's a beautiful song. And it's true. Answer number two, I am massive fanboying right now of Noga Erez. I don't know if you know Noga Erez. She's an incredible, she's great. She's an awesome artist. And she has this song on her latest album called, Oh, thank you. And it's like under two minutes long and it's her just blasting through every influence.

[00:55:55] that's ever touched her and made her the person and the musician that she is and the artist that she [00:56:00] is. And it's such a cool, it's such a cool track. And obviously it's the closing track to the album and it's, and it's like, Hey, before we close out here, like any last words? And she's like, I want to thank, and she just goes, you know?

[00:56:12] Stacy Havener: Wow. How cool is that?

[00:56:15] Jonathan Treussard: It's super cool. Um,

[00:56:16] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:56:17] Jonathan Treussard: And I think there's something about just showing gratitude at the end of the road. Yeah. Which is awesome.

[00:56:22] Stacy Havener: I love also that the song that you chose is as much about the lyrics as it is the beats.

[00:56:27] Jonathan Treussard: Yeah,

[00:56:29] Stacy Havener: I'm with you on that. Okay. Now what profession other than your own, would you like to attempt?

[00:56:37] Jonathan Treussard: Obviously, you know, music was always a natural candidate. I'm not sure that it's a profession, but I would, if it made sense, I would spend a lot of time sailing. I would love to cross. I'd love to cross the Atlantic on a sailboat. That's kind of my dream.

[00:56:52] Stacy Havener: That's a totally unexpected thing. Well, then you definitely need to come hang out in Newport.

[00:56:57] Okay, let's see. Okay, flip side. What [00:57:00] profession would you not like to do?

[00:57:02] Jonathan Treussard: Super easy. Medical doctor.

[00:57:04] Stacy Havener: That is maybe the most common answer.

[00:57:06] Jonathan Treussard: It's so, every part of it. One is I get queasy and like just the idea of blood, you know, whatever, you know, all of that. So part of it is just dealing with, with that part of it, which is just not me.

[00:57:18] One of my best friends, Out here is a, is an ER doctor

[00:57:23] and

[00:57:23] Jonathan Treussard: I don't know how he does what he does because honestly, I'm also just, and this is not one of my best qualities. My wife does not care for this quality. I ended up being judgmental. I'm like, what the hell did you do? Like, like, you know,

[00:57:39] Stacy Havener: Let's work backwards.

[00:57:40] How did we get here? Yeah. You know,

[00:57:42] Jonathan Treussard: and I'm like, and so like if, if I were an ER doctor and someone came in, like whatever, all broken and it became obvious that maybe they had something to do with it, I couldn't disassociate from the judgment, which clearly is not what you want in a, in a, you know,

[00:57:59] Stacy Havener: Not [00:58:00] helping.

[00:58:00] You're not helping. Oh my gosh. Okay. Last question. What? And this is not, this is a long way away. But what do you want people to say about you after you've retired or left the industry?

[00:58:11] Jonathan Treussard: He's great, but have you met his kids? They're pretty great.

[00:58:14] Stacy Havener: Oh, what a nice thing to say. That is such a nice thing to say.

[00:58:21] I love that. And I know you're a girl dad, so I love it even more.

[00:58:25] Jonathan Treussard: I, I am.

[00:58:26] Stacy Havener: Yeah. Jonathan, thank you so much for being here. This has been a pleasure. And again, if people want to connect with you, go to LinkedIn, you'll find his profile. You can chat with him there and also sign up for his newsletter. Thank you so much, Jonathan.

[00:58:40] Thank you. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. The information is not an offer, solicitation, or recommendation of any of the funds, services, or products, or to adopt any investment strategy. Investment values may fluctuate, and past performance is not a guide to future [00:59:00] performance.

[00:59:00]All opinions expressed by guests on the show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their firm. Manager's appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement by Stacey Havener or Havener Capital Partners.

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